On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 00:44:23 +0430 behrouz khosravi <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > If you build/install Android on a device, then it only contains what > > you put there, and you can just as easily remove it. If you let > > somebody else build/install android on a device and not give you > > root access, then it is painful. > > > > If you build/install Gentoo on a device, then it only contains what > > you put there, and you can just as easily remove it. If you let me > > build/install Gentoo on your device and not give you root access, > > then it is painful. > > > > If you let me reflash the firmware on your Gentoo system so that it > > uses my UEFI keys and firmware update keys and doesn't let you > > change them, and I set it up with a bootloader that checks your > > kernel+initramfs signatures and decrypts the rest of your hard drive > > using a TPM-supplied key and a verified boot path, and an initramfs > > that checks the signature on your /usr and mounts everything else > > noexec, then you're going to have some serious headaches. And yes, > > you actually can do all of this with Gentoo, though almost nobody > > bothers (ChromeOS is based on Gentoo and does use a variation on > > this, with licensed devices having a switch to disable the signature > > checks). I'd have to check but I think Linux actually supports > > (maybe via a patch) signature verification on execing images, in > > which case I can let you mount whatever you want +x and you still > > won't be able to run your own stuff. > > > > Your problem isn't with Android the OS. Your problem is with the > > experience your phone vendor is giving you. All that lockdown stuff > > that you seem to hate is 100% supported by the Linux kernel - you're > > just not turning it on with a typical distro install. > > > > > > > >> FOSS developers seem to mostly be stuck in X11-land - it > > >> scratches their itch which tends to be on the desktop. While > > >> touch screen is "just another input device" the fact is that you > > >> need to design your entire application UI around it. ... > > > > > > why do you thinks some foss user interfaces can not be created > > > for this situation? > > > > > > > I'm not saying that they cannot be created. I'm simply pointing out > > that nobody is bothering to do so. Anybody can write a web-based > > MUA comparable to Gmail or a web-based replacement to Google Docs, > > and release it as FOSS. However, it takes a lot of work and for > > various reasons most seem content to use an X11-based version of > > each. In the case of LibreOffice I think the origins are actually > > in software that was intended to be sold commercially, but failed > > (which is probably why they've been trying to cleanup the code for > > years). > > > > For a mobile OS your life is made even more difficult by Android, > > since many who would tend to write a competing OS probably consider > > it good enough. > > > > I'm really not interested in yet another android so much as more > > open hardware to run android on. Vendors are getting better about > > allowing unlocking, but driver support/etc is still a mess. > > > > Oh, and I don't like the general move of APIs into Google Play > > Services. That really needs to be split into two applications. One > > would provide APIs for stuff actually related to Google (like Google > > authentication, buying stuff on the Play Store, Google Wallet, and > > so on), and that could be closed. The other would provide all the > > stuff like WebView APIs where rapid updates are desirable, and it > > should be FOSS. > > > > > > I know what you mean. This is all more or less true, but what can we > do in this situation? > I will try to move toward whatever promotes openness, and please do > not tell me that ubuntu > is not more open that android. In android I cant even have pure native > apps! some parts of an application > should always be in java. Jolla do a phone which is Linux based. No idea if this would suit your needs but may be worth a look. It's GUI is good and it uses Wayland. Not sure how open it is! John D Maunder
