Hi Doug,

I would repudiate your differentiation between risky SRM and non-risky CDR. 
These branches of geoengineering address different risks althoghether and it is 
wisest to see them complementary rather than antagonistic. Solar Radiation 
Management (SRM) is likely to be deployed if there is sudden runaway event such 
as sudden methane escape from the melting permafrost. As methane ice is in 
large amounts in the Arctic Ocean its sudden releases can rapidly raise 
regional and global temperatures. This would necessitate by ameliorating 
increases in hydroxyl radical availability over the East Siberian Sea to keep 
up with the escalating methane emissions that self-prolong their atmospheric 
half life as the regional climate warms up (and eventually the global climate). 
Due to the potential rapid temperature rise, the methane ice melting could be 
best inhibited by sulphur dioxide induced SRM to slow or stop sea bed warming. 
The combination therapy to raise hydroxyl radicals and provide SRM cover by 
stratospheric sulphur could be used to slow methane.

Whilst the manipulation of hydroxyl to keep up methane and SRM based sulphur 
dioxide spreading would contain the temperature rises, time would be bought for 
more harmless fleet of cloud whitening and cloud nucleating vessels that could 
spray sea water to cool air down.

On the background then CDR operations would be geared up to remove carbon 
dioxide by various available means until safe levels are reached and the use of 
SRM can be curtailed and phased out. There is no point keeping SRM running 
indefinitely to justify CO2 emissions.

SRM dies when the CDR operations pick up the mopping up of carbon dioxide and 
methane.  So you are wrong in your positioning to antagonise the two and see 
them diametrically opposed and in competition with each other. 

Regards,
Albert
 From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [geo] More SPICE
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 10:43:02 -0700


Hi Ron – I’ve made this comment before, and I’ll make it again, but I don’t 
follow why you and others are so keen to keep CDR associated with the word 
geoengineering and hence with SRM, rather than quietly allowing geoengineering 
to become associated only with “risky” SRM.  Seems to me (and almost everyone 
else, including your own comments on the Oxford principles) that (i) aside from 
OIR, nothing in CDR has anything in common with SRM from either technical or 
governance or ethics perspectives, and (ii) SRM justly raises concern, which 
most CDR doesn’t, so it would seem like a huge downside to CDR folk from 
lumping these together. doug From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: David Winickoff; geoengineering; Joshua Horton
Subject: Re: [geo] More SPICE Greg, list etal  (acknowledging Josh adding 
thoughts on this topic)

   1.  As I have read this material, several things have stood out.  First is 
that the word "Geoengineering" continues to be a replacement for the phrase;  
"Solar Radiation Management" (SRM) which is actually under discussion.  I hate 
to keep pointing out that the term "Geoengineering" includes Carbon Dioxide 
Removal (CDR) , but I hope to make some progress through repetition..

   2.   The second standout "thing" is that there was considerable emphasis in 
this "SPICE" dialog on the five "Oxford Principles", which can be found at 
        http://www.geoengineering.ox.ac.uk/oxford-principles/principles/?
I don't recall much/enough discussion in this list on these.  In their shortest 
form, they read:
 
    1:  Geoengineering to be regulated as a public good.
    2:  Public participation in geoengineering decision-making
    3:  Disclosure of geoengineering research and open publication of results
    4:  Independent assessment of impacts
    5: Governance before deployment     (Any decisions with respect to 
deployment should only be taken with robust governance structures already in 
place, using existing rules and institutions wherever possible).

   3.  I can endorse these for SRM and for most CDR.   I include the 
explanatory sentence only for the last because I see a "problem" for the CDR 
approach called Biochar - which is already seeing hundreds of "zero-governance" 
Biochar tests this year and they are growing exponentially.  These cumulatively 
are much larger than the SPICE test.  As near as I can tell even the most 
anti-Biochar activists are calling for more tests - not few/none.   So why is 
this?   Is it possible that Biochar is not Geoengineering?   I can't endorse 
this view - as Biochar clearly has an important CDR component.

   4.  I propose instead that the Oxford Principles should have an exemption 
for Principle #5 for any of its CDR subset technologies that has all of these 
three characteristics:  1)  Has non-carbon out-year economic investment value 
roughly equivalent to its CDR value;  2)  Has a lengthy history of use 
independent of its consideration as a Geoengineering technology, and 3) Has any 
immediate negative impact only to the user. 
     Can anyone associated with the Oxford (or any other) principles also 
endorse this exemption?   If not, why has Biochar not had any expressed concern 
like that for the SPICE test?

   5.  I have endorsed the other 4 principles in large part because they are 
already being employed and supported within the Biochar world.  The first is 
needed to keep the inevitable shyster companies in line;  the regulatory 
concern is largely re soil degradation - outside the CDR aspect of Biochar.  
The second principle is happening widely already - with dozens of citizen 
support groups.   Many of those members voted (favorably) on a Biochar 
characterization standard this past month.  The third (disclosure/publication) 
seems to be largely and enthusiastically happening  (dozens some months) - 
although I am sure there is considerable secrecy and IP concern on the 
char-production side of Biochar.  Patent theory seems to be in support of any 
non-disclosure related to conversion of biomass to Biochar - and a lot of 
invention/patenting is happening (for example see www.coolplanetbiofuels.com).  
The fourth category (independent assessment) has already occurred in several 
institutions and is certainly not being discouraged.  I personally am more 
concerned about Biochar being ignored - as is largely the case in the 
publications being discussed in this thread.
     I should also note that the word "Geoengineering" almost never appears in 
Biochar literature - and most Biochar proponents would be delighted to not 
carry the baggage associated with the term.  Few would argue with the term 
"CDR".

What disagreements are there with this (personal only) view?

RonFrom: "Greg Rau" <[email protected]>
To: "geoengineering" <[email protected]>
Cc: "David Winickoff" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:26:11 PM
Subject: [geo] More SPICEA charter for geoengineeringNature485,415(24 May 
2012)doi:10.1038/485415aPublished online23 May 2012 A controversial field trial 
of technology to mitigate climate change has been cancelled, but research 
continues. A robust governance framework is sorely needed to prevent further 
setbacks.Geoengineering research has a problem. That much should be clear 
following last week's cancellation of a field trial for the Stratospheric 
Particle Injection for Climate Engineering (SPICE) project. The solutions to 
this problem are not so obvious, but they must be found — and fast.The SPICE 
field trial was supposed to involve spraying water into the atmosphere at an 
altitude of 1 kilometre using a balloon and hosepipe, as part of a host of work 
exploring whether it is possible to mitigate global warming by introducing 
particles into the stratosphere to reflect some of the Sun's energy away from 
Earth.But the field trial — which is only a small part of the overall SPICE 
project — became bogged down in protests and delays almost as soon as it was 
announced. Last week, as first reported by Nature, the project's lead 
investigator announced that it was being abandoned, citing concerns about 
intellectual-property rights, public engagement and the overall governance 
regime for such work.Colleagues have leapt to the defence of the SPICE team, 
and praised its decision to continue with the theoretical strands of its work. 
Indeed, the researchers have acted with commendable honesty. But the SPICE 
issue is a perfect example of the problems that will persist until geoengineers 
grasp the nettle of regulation and oversight.We have been here before. Work on 
'fertilizing' the oceans to promote blooms of phytoplankton that would lock up 
carbon dioxide ran into similar protests and governance wrangles. In 2009, an 
experiment to test the idea by dumping tonnes of iron sulphate into the 
Southern Ocean caused huge public disquiet and went ahead only after further 
discussions.“Problems will persist until geoengineers grasp the nettle of 
regulation and oversight.”Researchers argue that 'geoengineering' is a falsely 
inclusive term. They say that SPICE-style 'solar-radiation management' is 
completely different from ocean fertilization, and different again from carbon 
capture. But these technologies have similar aims and, when it comes to rules 
and regulations, they probably need to be dealt with together.The 
geoengineering community has tried to bring some discipline to the emerging 
field. The 'Oxford Principles' — developed in 2010 by researchers at the 
University of Oxford, UK — offer some useful ground rules. They say that 
geoengineering should be regulated as a public good; there should be public 
participation in decision-making; research should be disclosed and results 
published openly; impacts should be assessed independently; and decisions to 
deploy the technologies should be made within a robust governance 
framework.These are excellent principles. But they are vague, and cannot serve 
as a guide to conducting specific experiments in such a broad field.A meeting 
of geoengineers in Asilomar, California, in 2009 — influenced by a meeting at 
the same location in 1975, when researchers hashed out guidelines for genetic 
engineering — produced similarly vague recommendations, such as the need to 
conduct research openly and to consult the public when planning research. It 
also called for governments to “when necessary, create new mechanisms for the 
governance and oversight of large-scale climate engineering research 
activities”.The SPICE fiasco starkly demonstrates the need for such mechanisms. 
For a project of such high profile to founder on problems of intellectual 
property, regulation or public protest would be bad enough. That it ran into 
difficulties in all three areas shows an underlying problem.Of the issues 
raised, intellectual property may turn out to be the easiest to resolve (see 
page 429). Science has a long and generally happy relationship with patents, 
including those for technology with the ability to drive worldwide change. 
Likewise, lessons on public engagement and dealing with protests can be taken 
from earlier rows over genetic modification, stem cells, fertility work and 
animal research.More troubling is the lack of an overarching governance 
framework. Although the SPICE trial has been cancelled, other tests of 
geoengineering technology will surely follow. Other work, such as fiddling with 
clouds to make them more reflective or to try to bring on rain, touches on both 
climate-change mitigation and weather modification.Geoengineers should keep 
trying. They should come together and draft detailed, practical actions that 
need to be taken to advance governance in the field. Regulation in these 
cutting-edge and controversial areas needs to be working before the experiments 
begin, rather than racing to catch up.Cancelled project spurs debate over 
geoengineering patentsSPICE research consortium decides not to field-test its 
technology to reflect the Sun’s rays.Daniel Cressey23 May 2012Technologies to 
keep Earth cool could one day provide a radical fix for climate change — and, 
in a world struggling to control its greenhouse-gas emissions, could also prove 
highly lucrative for inventors.But should individual researchers, or companies, 
be allowed to own the intellectual property (IP) behind these world-changing 
techniques? The issue was thrust into the spotlight last week after a 
controversial geoengineering field trial was cancelled amid concerns about a 
patent application by some of those involved in the project, as first reported 
by Nature1.The £1.6-million (US$2.5-million) Stratospheric Particle Injection 
for Climate Engineering (SPICE) project was funded by the UK government to 
investigate whether spurting reflective aerosols into the stratosphere could 
help to bounce some of the Sun’s warming rays back into space. As part of this 
project, SPICE had planned to test a possible delivery system: pumping water up 
a 1-kilometre-long hose to a balloon, where it would be sprayed into the 
sky.The project had already sparked protests from environmentalists wary of 
geoengineering2. But “a potentially significant conflict of interest” over a 
patent application for SPICE’s technology, which some team members only 
recently became aware of, was a decisive factor in the cancellation, says 
project leader Matthew Watson, an Earth scientist at the University of Bristol, 
UK. The patent was submitted by Peter Davidson, a consultant based on the Isle 
of Man who was an adviser at the workshop that gave rise to SPICE, and Hugh 
Hunt, an engineer at the University of Cambridge, UK, who is one of the SPICE 
project investigators.Related storiesGeoengineering experiment cancelled amid 
patent rowGeoengineering won't curb sea-level riseWorld view: Not by experts 
aloneMore related storiesUK funding bodies require anyone assessing or applying 
for grants to declare relevant potential conflicts of interest. Davidson and 
Hunt say that they were clear about their patent application before SPICE was 
awarded funding, and there is no suggestion that they acted inappropriately. 
But at least one of the funding councils is now investigating the circumstances 
surrounding the SPICE grant, and the patent in question, says Watson.Hunt 
blames a culture clash for the confusion. “It is completely normal for 
engineering projects to be protected by IP,” he says. “The issue here is that 
in climate science there is mistrust of IP, and I understand that now.” He says 
he does not expect to earn any money from the patent.SPICE’s climate modelling 
and other technology development work will continue, but the incident is 
another blow for a field already troubled by concerns over governance. In 2010, 
researchers and policy-makers gathered at the Asilomar Conference Center near 
Monterey, California, to agree a set of guiding principles for the field — an 
effort that largely failed3.The following year, a smaller group produced the 
‘Oxford Principles’, stating that geoengineering should be “regulated as a 
public good”. The lead authors of those principles later warned that patenting 
of geoengineering technologies could “have serious negative impacts”, by 
creating a culture of secrecy that could delay much-needed developments.“The 
issue here is that in climate science there is mistrust of IP.”Climate 
scientist David Keith of Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts, 
agrees, advocating legal restrictions on patents related to solar-radiation 
management. Any technologies that could be controlled by a small number of 
people, yet have the capacity to rapidly alter our planet’s climate, “are 
deeply troubling”, he says. But Keith is not against patenting in principle — 
he has applied for patents on techniques to remove carbon dioxide directly from 
the atmosphere.Shobita Parthasarathy, a public-policy researcher at the 
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, says that the field urgently needs to agree 
on detailed rules for IP. In 2010, she noted a “dramatically increasing” number 
of patent applications in the area, containing broad language that could allow 
a small number of patent holders to take control of a huge swathe of 
technologies4. One possible solution, she says, is to develop a unique system 
for handling geoengineering patents, akin to the way that atomic-energy patents 
are controlled in the United States. That system puts certain technologies 
off-limits, and allows the government to take control of some intellectual 
property. “I don’t think the solution is to get rid of IP,” she says.Another 
option might be to allow patent-holders to receive royalties, but without the 
option to restrict the use of the patent, says Tim Kruger, a researcher at the 
Geoengineering Programme, University of Oxford, UK, who helped to develop the 
Oxford Principles. This would allow some research and development to proceed, 
while still providing a financial incentive to work in the area, he says.But 
geoengineering patents of any kind could give companies a vested interest in 
the continuation of climate change, argues Holly Buck, a social scientist who 
has studied the ethics of geoengineering. “It seems conceptually wrong to 
create conditions for an enterprise that would institutionally benefit from a 
stressed climate.”Nature485,429(24 May 2012)doi:10.1038/485429a -- 
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