I've just tried running some really simple equations to look at forcing, so 
I thought I would share my back of the envelope calculations and see what 
you all think.
So I tried to calculate what would happen to forcing in a 5Tg of soot 
released (likely due to a regional nuclear war) combined with a termination 
shock, possibly due to cascading impacts of the nuclear war on the global 
economy, for example. I used a value of -15Wm^-2 for the maximum forcing 
from the soot, and a e-folding time of 4.6 years [Robock  et al 2007]. I 
then used a solar geoengineering forcing of -4Wm^-2 (the maximum forcing 
from Pinatubo) and an e-folding time of 1 year.
I treated the forcing relative to the nongeoengineered world prior to the 
nuclear winter, so treated that as 0Wm^-2 and the forcing of the 
geoengineered world before the nuclear winter at 4Wm^-2. The soot was 
injected at the end of year 1. Immediately after soot injection at the end 
of year 1, the forcing(geo) is -19Wm^-2 and the forcing(nongeo) is 
-15Wm^-2. At the end of year 2, so 1 year after the soot injection, the 
forcing (geo) is 14Wm^-2 and the forcing(nongeo) is 12Wm^-2, so the delta 
for the forcing(geo) relative to their initial values is 16.7% less than 
the delta forcing (nongeo).
The two equations I used  for year 1 were as follows:
y=0 (nongeo)
y=-4 (geo)
The two equations I used for the end of year 1 onwards were
y=-15e ^(-1/4.6 * (t-1)) [nongeo]
y=-15e^(-1/4.6 * (t-1)) -3e^(-(t-1)) [geo]

The graph I got is here (https://www.desmos.com/calculator/duz3tlpkky)
It seems to me for a relatively small scale nuclear winter and  a 
moderately large SRM forcing that the forcing impacts of termination shock 
are not negligable. This obviously doesn't necessarily translate to climate 
respone

I did a few others for other SRM and nuclear war scenarios, which I can 
send through if people were interested.
Obviously these calculations are massively simplified, back of the envelope 
calculations, but I would nonetheless be interested in peoples thoughts on 
it. Apologies if I have messed up somewhere
Kind Regards
Gideon

On Sunday, 7 August 2022 at 01:36:17 UTC+1 Russell Seitz wrote:

> I'm  surprised Alan should neglect to cite studies other than his own, as 
>  climate responses to carbon aerosols in the atmosphere vary greatly. The 
> recent literature is illustrative- a growing  concern is the impact of 
> black carbon from satellite and spacecraft launches, which may warm the 
> upper atmosphere rather than cool it:
>
> Journal of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres 
> <https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/21698996>  1June2022
>
> The Climate and Ozone Impacts of Black Carbon Emissions From Global Rocket 
> Launches
> Christopher M Maloney 
> <https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/action/doSearch?ContribAuthorRaw=Maloney%2C+Christopher+M>
> , Robert W Portmann 
> <https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/action/doSearch?ContribAuthorRaw=Portmann%2C+Robert+W>
> , Martin N Ross 
> <https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/action/doSearch?ContribAuthorRaw=Ross%2C+Martin+N>
> , Karen H Rosenlof 
> <https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/action/doSearch?ContribAuthorRaw=Rosenlof%2C+Karen+H>
>  
> https://doi.org/10.1029/2021JD036373
>
> Aerosol emissions from spaceflight activities play a small but increasing 
> role in the background stratospheric aerosol population. Rockets used by 
> the global launch industry emit black carbon (BC) particles directly into 
> the stratosphere where they accumulate, absorb solar radiation, and warm 
> the surrounding air. We model the chemical and dynamical response of the 
> atmosphere to northern mid-latitude rocket BC emissions. We initially 
> examine emissions at a rate of 10 Gg per year, which is an order of 
> magnitude larger than current emissions, but consistent with extrapolations 
> of space traffic growth several decades into the future. We also perform 
> runs at 30 and 100 Gg per year in order to better delineate the 
> atmosphere's response to rocket BC emissions. We show that a 10 Gg/yr 
> rocket BC emission increases stratospheric temperatures by as much as 1.5 K 
> in the stratosphere. Changes in global circulation also occur. For example, 
> the annual subtropical jet wind speeds slow down by as much as 5 m/s, while 
> a 10%–20% weakening of the overturning circulation occurs in the northern 
> hemisphere during multiple seasons. Warming temperatures lead to a ozone 
> reduction in the northern hemisphere by as much as 16 DU in some months. 
> The climate response increases in a near linear fashion when looking at 
> larger 30 and 100 Gg emission scenarios. Comparing the amplitude of the 
> atmospheric response using different emission rates provides insight into 
> stratospheric adjustment and feedback mechanisms. Our results show that the 
> stratosphere is sensitive to relatively modest BC injections.
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:20:44 AM UTC-4 Alan Robock wrote:
>
>> Dear Gideon,
>>
>> A nuclear war would be orders of magnitude worse than any impacts of SAI 
>> or termination.  Soot from fires ignited by nuclear attacks on cities and 
>> industrial areas would last for many years, and would overwhelm any impacts 
>> from shorter lived sulfate aerosols.  Of course the impacts depend on how 
>> much soot, but a war between the US and Russia could produce a nuclear 
>> winter.  For more  information on our work and the consequences of nuclear 
>> war, please visit http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/nuclear/
>>
>> Alan Robock
>>
>> Alan Robock, Distinguished Professor
>> Department of Environmental Sciences         Phone: +1-848-932-5751 
>> <(848)%20932-5751>
>> Rutgers University                            E-mail: 
>> [email protected]
>> 14 College Farm Road            http://people.envsci.rutgers.edu/robock
>> New Brunswick, NJ 08901-8551     ☮ https://twitter.com/AlanRobock
>>
>> [image: Signature] 
>>
>>
>> On 7/26/2022 10:03 AM, Gideon Futerman wrote:
>>
>> As part of the RESILIENCER Project, we are looking at low probability 
>> high impact events and their relation to SRM. One important worry in this 
>> regards becomes termination shock, most importantly what Baum (2013) calls 
>> a "Double Catastrophe" where a global societal collapse caused by one 
>> catastrophe then causes termination shock, another catastrophe, which may 
>> convert the civilisational collapse into a risk of extinction. 
>>
>> One such initial catastrophe may be nuclear war. Thus, the combination of 
>> SRM and nuclear war may be a significant worry. As such, I am posing the 
>> question to the google group: what would happen if SRM (either 
>> stratospheric or tropospheric- or space based if you want to go there) was 
>> terminated due to a nuclear war? What sort of effects would you expect to 
>> see? Would the combination worsen the effects of nuclear war or help 
>> ameliorate them? How would this differ between SRM types?
>>
>>
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>> .
>>
>>
>>

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