I am going to keep on muddling with postgis2 ... a) not going to install oracle on my laptop b) h2 (while cool) seems to lack index support right now (and I am not cool enough to know how to fake it)
Jody > I think you are exactly right Chris. The first round of jdbc helper > classes were written at a time when postgis was young. And it kind of > evolved on a need by need basis as postgis required. Or so i can infer, > i wasn't around at that time :). > > But now things are pretty stable and we can actually design a nice > "internal" api for jdbc datastore developers. I think its a great way to > help improve datastores like oracle which suffer from just being a > spinoff of postgis. > > Postgis however will have to come with time, at a point when we have > better testing in place to ensure that we can catch all the > optimizations and special cases. > > -Justin > > Chris Holmes wrote: > >> Yeah, that sounds ideal. The abstract JDBC infrastructure is obviously >> hosed right now - the reality of working with it ends up making things >> more difficult due to the amount of hacks to get the subclasses working. >> >> I agree that H2 would be a great time to have another go at JDBC helper >> methods or abstract methods that are actually useful and don't impose a >> burden. I imagine that a couple abstract helper methods might still be >> useful, but that much of what we try to do is likely better off in some >> utility classes. We've had a lot of good lessons, and we should try to >> learn from them, make it easier for others to write new jdbc datastores. >> Should definitely talk to David Adler as well, he had some ideas on how >> to make it easier as well. If we build a nice infrastructure it should >> be relatively easy for existing datastores to port over if they choose. >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> Justin Deoliveira wrote: >> >>> Hi Andrea, >>> >>> Thanks for your thoughts. About PostGIS, originally rewriting it seemed >>> like a good idea. But for the exact same reasons you listed. Reproducing >>> the functionality while making the code cleaner is no simple task. Part >>> of making the code cleaner is getting rid of some of those hacks, which >>> then changes the datastore. For these reasons, I dont think its >>> realistic to take on this kind of effort. >>> >>> However, what I would really like to see is a good abstract JDBC >>> datastore. One made with the intent to extended. Breaking out "template" >>> methods where needed, making it final if need be, etc... >>> >>> It seems like there is a fair amount of interest in having an H2 >>> datastore. I was thinking this might be a much more logical candidate to >>> do this type of thing with, since there are no pre-existing expectations >>> to live up to. >>> >>> -Justin >>> >>> Andrea Aime wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> two things Jody said during yesterday IRC meeting made >>>> me think tonight. >>>> >>>> I don't have the logs for the pre-meeting, but the first >>>> one was something like how deep is the level of optimizations, >>>> workarounds and details in the postgis data store, and how >>>> nice is the new experimental one. >>>> >>>> The old one is ugly, no doubt. Making a new one with a cleaner >>>> structure is a good move for long term mantainance. I agree >>>> on this too. >>>> Yet, the "level of optimizations, workarounds and details" >>>> is what makes the postgis data store our best jdbc data store, >>>> that is, something that most of the time just works fine, >>>> with whatever load of data you throw at it, and with various >>>> levels of badness handled transparently. >>>> >>>> What I would like to make people appreciate is the amount >>>> of work that went into the old ugly data store, days of fine >>>> tuning, bug fixing that are not evident and not checked by >>>> just the unit test suite. Making a new one that passes the >>>> same tests as the old one is just a first step towards something >>>> that can be used as a replacement. >>>> Before venturing into such a change, one has to understand >>>> intimately the old and ugly one, appreciate the why and the hows >>>> things were done in a certain way. >>>> >>>> As an alternative, that may work on widely used modules, check >>>> out the list of closed bugs on the module and ask yourself whether >>>> there is a test for them, and whether the new module exhibit >>>> the bad behaviour described in there. >>>> If we all added a junit test for each bug found, that would not >>>> be necessary, but since history proves otherwise, it's an >>>> exercise everyone doing big changes should try out. >>>> >>>> This is not to say that we don't need change. We do. >>>> But we need a change that provides improvements, not regressions. >>>> A big changes that disregards detailed correctness and performance >>>> issues is a sample of the "small blanket" problem, >>>> you try to cover your shoulders, and end up with cold feet. >>>> >>>> So every time you work on a big change, think about it also >>>> from this point of view :-) >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Andrea >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. 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