On 11/23/08, Christian Willmes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a problem with the term neogeography because as you said:
>
> "The Geoweb has revolutionized digital cartography and GIScience. The
> revolutionaries are neogeographers."
>
>
> It is affecting cartography and GIScience, not geography, at least in
> the sense geography is understood in germany.
>
> The Problem of that whole discussion is, that the people who invented
> build and use geoweb applications are mostly not geographers in terms of
> a scientific/educational background.
> I would think that this discussion is totally meaningless to the most
> geographers at my department, who are researching for example issues of
> "N fluxes in the environment", "international networks", "vulnerability
> in megacities" and so on.
> There is no problem to write a Ph.D. thesis in geography about how
> geoweb is affecting people in everyday descisionmaking or something like
> that, but it is just meaningless for the far most questions of geography.
> So, what I want to say is, that there is no devide between "neo" and
> "paleo" as you describe it as "antithetical to traditional geography",
> there is a new field for geography to research. Nothing more and nothing
> less in my eyes.
This is really a very thoughtful and completely spot-on response.
Availability of web-based mapping tools makes me a
*-cartographer/geographer as much as the availability of a power saw
and drill makes me a *-carpenter.
These tools allow me to do map-based stuff, much of which earlier on
would have been either done by trained cartographers/geographers or
not done at all because no one but me would have been interested in my
problems. In other words, these tools empower me to solve my own
problems much as a word-processor gave me the ability to type my own
thesis and not hire a trained typist to do so.
I am not a geographer by any stretch of imagination although I am now
able to do many of the things that geographers may do.
This whole neo v. paleo trash talk is getting old and boring fast. It
divides the world into an artificial binary place kinda like Mac v. PC
or Windows v. Unix or Dems v. Reps (here in the US) or the worse yet
blacks v. whites (re. race relations here in the US). It might make
for some interesting writing/trash talking fodder or even politics,
but is quite meaningless in real life. I don't fit any of the above
categories.
Thank god no one is using "Web two dot oh geographers" but
neogeographers and paleogeographers is just as shudder-inducing.
>
> best regards,
> Christian
>
> R E Sieber schrieb:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I'm thinking of proposing a panel at Where 2.0 and I'd like your
> > suggestions. This would be the sister panel of one I've already
> > organized for this year's Association of American Geographers' Annual
> > Conference (to be held mid-March in Las Vegas; AAG being the land of the
> > paleos). Here's the abstract for the AAG panel.
> >
> > Panel: Neogeographers meet Paleogeographers
> >
> > The Geoweb has revolutionized digital cartography and GIScience. The
> > revolutionaries are neogeographers. According to Turner (2006),
> > "Neogeography is about people using and creating their own maps, on
> > their own terms and by combining elements of an existing toolset".
> > Toolsets involve user-generated geospatial content (aka volunteered
> > geographic information): geotagged Flickr photographs, Google Maps
> > Mashups, Open Street maps, and loopt. It's more than software or
> > Internet apps, "The geoaware Web isn't a product we buy; it's an
> > environment we colonize" (Udall 2005).
> >
> > Neogeography is posited as antithetical to traditional geography. To
> > neos, GIScience appears fixated on data accuracy, vetting and
> > documentation. Critical GIS makes dire pronouncements for geospatial
> > gadgetry. Neogeographers call for flexible and playful artistic
> > engagement with place (a "dissident cartographic aesthetic", {Holmes
> > 2006}). Neogeographers, birthed in wikipedia ideologies of
> > egalitarianism and disdain for expertise, believe in "radical openness"
> > (Udall 2005). GIScience is seen as a closed (and, coincidentally,
> > insufficiently computational) enterprise, relying on clubbiness and on
> > proprietary software. With this characterization, can neo and paleo ever
> > be reconciled?
> >
> > Panelists come from both camps, and will consider four questions. 1.
> > What is the landscape of UGGC and what does it reveal about the deeper
> > social and political implications of the Geoweb? 2. What can each camp
> > offer the other and what are the barriers impeding communication? 3.
> > What role does expertise hold in colonizing the Geoweb? 4. If neo is the
> > current thing then what is post-neo? Panelists will seek linkages among
> > paleo, neo, and geo.
> >
> > AAG Panel has me, Andre Skupin, Martin Dodge, Sean Gorman, and Andrew
> > Turner.
> >
> >
> > What I need for Where is suggestions for panelists. It'd have to be
> > fairly small. I've talk to Sean Gorman and Andrew Turner and they're
> > game. Probably only one other neogeographer/geowanker (if that). What I
> > need are one-two paleos who are attending Where.
> >
> > Also, you'll notice that the above abstract is a bit hard on the paleos
> > and gracious to the neos. What I'd need is some wording that's gracious
> > to the paleos. Can you think of good things to say about traditional
> > cartographer and GIScience? (Obviously I can, but I'm curious as to
> > others' impressions.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Renee
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > [email protected]
> > http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org
> >
>
>
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--
Puneet Kishor http://punkish.eidesis.org/
Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
Open Source Geospatial Foundation (OSGeo) http://www.osgeo.org/
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