Geographers who used /developed GIS in the 1980s *were* the neogeographers of
their time. Perhaps some of them have not kept up with new technology as well
they might have....but I (also) do not think that this justifies the "us versus
them" rhetoric. That said, I look forward to the Where2.0 and AAG panels:
debates are almost always valuable vehicles for moving ahead.
MG
Quoting P Kishor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On 11/23/08, Christian Willmes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have a problem with the term neogeography because as you said:
> >
> > "The Geoweb has revolutionized digital cartography and GIScience. The
> > revolutionaries are neogeographers."
> >
> >
> > It is affecting cartography and GIScience, not geography, at least in
> > the sense geography is understood in germany.
> >
> > The Problem of that whole discussion is, that the people who invented
> > build and use geoweb applications are mostly not geographers in terms of
> > a scientific/educational background.
> > I would think that this discussion is totally meaningless to the most
> > geographers at my department, who are researching for example issues of
> > "N fluxes in the environment", "international networks", "vulnerability
> > in megacities" and so on.
> > There is no problem to write a Ph.D. thesis in geography about how
> > geoweb is affecting people in everyday descisionmaking or something like
> > that, but it is just meaningless for the far most questions of geography.
> > So, what I want to say is, that there is no devide between "neo" and
> > "paleo" as you describe it as "antithetical to traditional geography",
> > there is a new field for geography to research. Nothing more and nothing
> > less in my eyes.
>
> This is really a very thoughtful and completely spot-on response.
> Availability of web-based mapping tools makes me a
> *-cartographer/geographer as much as the availability of a power saw
> and drill makes me a *-carpenter.
>
> These tools allow me to do map-based stuff, much of which earlier on
> would have been either done by trained cartographers/geographers or
> not done at all because no one but me would have been interested in my
> problems. In other words, these tools empower me to solve my own
> problems much as a word-processor gave me the ability to type my own
> thesis and not hire a trained typist to do so.
>
> I am not a geographer by any stretch of imagination although I am now
> able to do many of the things that geographers may do.
>
> This whole neo v. paleo trash talk is getting old and boring fast. It
> divides the world into an artificial binary place kinda like Mac v. PC
> or Windows v. Unix or Dems v. Reps (here in the US) or the worse yet
> blacks v. whites (re. race relations here in the US). It might make
> for some interesting writing/trash talking fodder or even politics,
> but is quite meaningless in real life. I don't fit any of the above
> categories.
>
> Thank god no one is using "Web two dot oh geographers" but
> neogeographers and paleogeographers is just as shudder-inducing.
>
>
> >
> > best regards,
> > Christian
> >
> > R E Sieber schrieb:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > I'm thinking of proposing a panel at Where 2.0 and I'd like your
> > > suggestions. This would be the sister panel of one I've already
> > > organized for this year's Association of American Geographers' Annual
> > > Conference (to be held mid-March in Las Vegas; AAG being the land of
> the
> > > paleos). Here's the abstract for the AAG panel.
> > >
> > > Panel: Neogeographers meet Paleogeographers
> > >
> > > The Geoweb has revolutionized digital cartography and GIScience. The
> > > revolutionaries are neogeographers. According to Turner (2006),
> > > "Neogeography is about people using and creating their own maps, on
> > > their own terms and by combining elements of an existing toolset".
> > > Toolsets involve user-generated geospatial content (aka volunteered
> > > geographic information): geotagged Flickr photographs, Google Maps
> > > Mashups, Open Street maps, and loopt. It's more than software or
> > > Internet apps, "The geoaware Web isn't a product we buy; it's an
> > > environment we colonize" (Udall 2005).
> > >
> > > Neogeography is posited as antithetical to traditional geography. To
> > > neos, GIScience appears fixated on data accuracy, vetting and
> > > documentation. Critical GIS makes dire pronouncements for geospatial
> > > gadgetry. Neogeographers call for flexible and playful artistic
> > > engagement with place (a "dissident cartographic aesthetic", {Holmes
> > > 2006}). Neogeographers, birthed in wikipedia ideologies of
> > > egalitarianism and disdain for expertise, believe in "radical openness"
> > > (Udall 2005). GIScience is seen as a closed (and, coincidentally,
> > > insufficiently computational) enterprise, relying on clubbiness and on
> > > proprietary software. With this characterization, can neo and paleo
> ever
> > > be reconciled?
> > >
> > > Panelists come from both camps, and will consider four questions. 1.
> > > What is the landscape of UGGC and what does it reveal about the deeper
> > > social and political implications of the Geoweb? 2. What can each camp
> > > offer the other and what are the barriers impeding communication? 3.
> > > What role does expertise hold in colonizing the Geoweb? 4. If neo is
> the
> > > current thing then what is post-neo? Panelists will seek linkages among
> > > paleo, neo, and geo.
> > >
> > > AAG Panel has me, Andre Skupin, Martin Dodge, Sean Gorman, and Andrew
> > > Turner.
> > >
> > >
> > > What I need for Where is suggestions for panelists. It'd have to be
> > > fairly small. I've talk to Sean Gorman and Andrew Turner and they're
> > > game. Probably only one other neogeographer/geowanker (if that). What I
> > > need are one-two paleos who are attending Where.
> > >
> > > Also, you'll notice that the above abstract is a bit hard on the paleos
> > > and gracious to the neos. What I'd need is some wording that's gracious
> > > to the paleos. Can you think of good things to say about traditional
> > > cartographer and GIScience? (Obviously I can, but I'm curious as to
> > > others' impressions.)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Renee
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > [email protected]
> > > http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org
> > >
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
> --
> Puneet Kishor http://punkish.eidesis.org/
> Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
> Open Source Geospatial Foundation (OSGeo) http://www.osgeo.org/
>
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>
>
--------------------------
Michael Gould
Universitat Jaume I
Castellón
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