In my opinion there is a huge difference between just geometrical accurancy (or scale) of to be mapped/modeled objects and the description or the "mapping" of those objects with its semantical meaning(s) and relations between them. For just static physical objects in real world you can do a "1:1" scale, or a submilimeter precise model, with todays technology (photogrammetrical, laser scanning etc.) of the pure geometry in 3D/4D space/time. But if you would like to process some information about any objects and their relation and meaning in real world, you need to filter this information to a proper amount of information you can consider for processing to find your answer. This means for example, If you would like to process a shortest route between two places, you just need information about the edges (for you possible crossable pathes) between these nodes, and some (more) attributes for those edges which might have an influence on the "best" route. A too precices map/model of the world with all thinkable possible information would be counterproductive (because you would need to filter/process more), for this purpose...

There are technologies for considering/processing same data under different scales, as for example Level of Detail... but essentially you need to stay focused on what you want/need to map/model/analyse/visualize to find your solutions/answers.

As I cited Alfred Korzybsky some time ago on this list, it fits here very well again: "The map is not the territory". ;-)

best regards,
Christian
Andy Turner schrieb:
Hi,

Thanks Edward for the links.

All the best with the AR work everyone doing that.

I go along with Alan, Eric and Pablo. 1:1 Scale is fine, but what detail is 
wanted, what resolution, what objects are simplified in this map? We can’t have 
all views from everywhere unless they are in some way generalised!

As a geographer I am focusing at a human scale, and at the moment I am doing 
social simulation work with a model that operates on the individual person 
level, but which contains details of each individuals family relationships, 
location, destination, heading and a history of interactions.

I think a measure of scale ratio is most useful when considering cartographic 
generalisation or magnification or shrinkage of images. Scale itself is 
important when considering high resolution spatial-temporal-attribute data 
models, but the closer these become to 1:1 for any slice through that 
tri-space, the less one can assert the scale ratio and attach meaning to it. I 
like the different resolution models suggested in Permutation City by Greg 
Egan, a stimulating read if you have the time… Of course atoms aren’t really 
the smallest stuff! Anyway… back to work…

Best wishes,

Andy
http://www.geog.leeds.ac.uk/people/a.turner/

From: geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org 
[mailto:geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org] On Behalf Of Pablo Rodríguez Madroño
Sent: 09 February 2010 11:10
To: geowanking
Subject: Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping

But I think that AR is not strictly producing maps, at least in a "classical" 
sense. It only appends a set of 1:1 features to a physical reality, and the results lose 
all the practicity once the reality goes away.

For me, the maps of Borges and Carroll are impractical in the sense that the 
base cartography is part of the result, whereas in AR there is no base 
cartography, and that's what makes the idea so powerful.

--
Pablo Rodríguez Madroño

2010/2/9 Eric Wolf <ebw...@gmail.com<mailto:ebw...@gmail.com>>
Don't forget that we regularly see maps that are even larger scale than 1:1! 
Xrays, circuit diagrams, CPU lithographs, organic chemical symbols.

And CAD normally deals with what is essentially a 1:1 map.

-Eric

-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-
Eric B. Wolf                    New! 720-334-7734
USGS Geographer
Center of Excellence in GIScience
PhD Student
CU-Boulder - Geography

GPG Public Key: http://www.h4h.net/ebwolf.public.key.txt


On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Edward Vielmetti 
<edward.vielme...@gmail.com<mailto:edward.vielme...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Sounds like maps of Michigan.  some examples

http://www.michiganmittens.com/
http://cartophilia.com/blog/2008/11/michigan-mittens.html
http://www.michiblogger.net/372.php

and this from London

http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/02/glove-map/


On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 12:20 AM, R E Sieber 
<resie...@gmail.com<mailto:resie...@gmail.com>> wrote:
They’re also referred to as anthropomorphic maps. Got this one from one of
my listservs"

AM are exactly scale 1:1. Anthropomorphic (body-part) maps were generated
by configuring the virtual body of a god or goddess over the area to be
mapped. Areas under each part of that body received the name of that part.
These maps equate geography with (human) anatomy to produce place names that
indicate where they are located relative to other places on the same map.
Examples of these maps include "Old Man" Napi (creator of the Blackfoot
indians) and his "Old Woman" wife in Alberta, Canada; Hermes centered at Mt.
Hermon (now on the Israeli-Syrian cease-fire line); and Aphrodite in north
Africa.
Renee


Alan Keown wrote:
Mike,

Lewis Carrol was, in my opinion, fascinated by the apparent absurdities
that Mathematical concepts can generate when partnered with unbridled
extrapolation (or interpolation).

As a reality check I would say that

§ “we” are not really creating maps; we make “models” of the real world
that can be presented as maps.

§ it will be a long time before we have anything like general coverage at
a “scale” of even 1:1000, let alone 1:1

§ “we” will not map everything – leaves on trees, blades of grass, door
handles (the list goes on)

Which leads me to the email signature I used to use before adopting the
Sylvie and Bruno quote several years ago:

“If I have a 1:1 model of the universe, does that make me God?”

Cheers

AlanK

/“…And then came the grandest idea of all! /

/We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the
mile!/

/Have you used it much? I enquired. //
//It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: /

/the farmers objected:/

/they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight!/

/So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it
does nearly as well…”/
— Lewis Carroll. /The complete Sylvie and Bruno./ 1893.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:* 
geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org<mailto:geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org>
[mailto:geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org<mailto:geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org>]
 *On Behalf Of *Mike Liebhold
*Sent:* Tuesday, 9 February 2010 10:22 AM
*To:* David Asbury
*Cc:* geowanking@geowanking.org<mailto:geowanking@geowanking.org>
*Subject:* Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping

wow thanks to both! this is a trove!
http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP

jorge luis borges, lewis carrol, gregory bateson, david foster wallace,
...

the crazy thing is we're building this 1:1 AR map. modern augmented
aeality is becoming precisely what lewis carrol said here: " the country
itself, as its own map"




On 2/8/10 2:44 PM, David Asbury wrote:

And, of course, the classic:

And then came the grandest idea of all! We actually made a map of the
country, on the scale of a mile to the mile!"

"Have you used it much?" I enquired.

"It has never been spread out, yet," said Mein Herr: "the farmers
objected: they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the
sunlight! So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you
it does nearly as well.

-- Lewis Carroll, Sylvie and Bruno Concluded (1893).

Here are a number of other thoughts...

http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP

David

Brandon Martin-Anderson wrote:

Here's a story about 1:1 mapping:

"""
On Exactitude in Science . . . In that Empire, the Art of Cartography
attained such Perfection that the map of a single Province occupied
the entirety of a City, and the map of the Empire, the entirety of a
Province. In time, those Unconscionable Maps no longer satisfied, and
the Cartographers Guilds struck a Map of the Empire whose size was
that of the Empire, and which coincided point for point with it. The
following Generations, who were not so fond of the Study of
Cartography as their Forebears had been, saw that that vast Map was
Useless, and not without some Pitilessness was it, that they delivered
it up to the Inclemencies of Sun and Winters. In the Deserts of the
West, still today, there are Tattered Ruins of that Map, inhabited by
Animals and Beggars; in all the Land there is no other Relic of the
Disciplines of Geography.

Suarez Miranda,Viajes de varones prudentes, Libro IV,Cap. XLV, Lerida,
1658

From Jorge Luis Borges, Collected Fictions, Translated by Andrew

Hurley Copyright Penguin 1999 .
"""

-B

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Mike Liebhold 
<m...@well.com<mailto:m...@well.com>>
<mailto:m...@well.com<mailto:m...@well.com>> wrote:

the arrival of viewfinder AR (augmented reality) is opening lots of
opportunities for near field focal plane maps of very dense local data.

e.g. "show me labels, links, annotations and attributes for things and
places in my field of view"

is 1:1 scale mapping a reasonable idea?

can anyone here share pointers or stories about 1:1 scale mapping and why
the idea has generated ridicule in the past?


???




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Ann Arbor, MI 48104

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Christian Willmes
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Geographisches Institut     | Institute of Geography
Universität zu Köln         | University of Cologne
Tel.: +49 (0)221 470 6234
Fax.: +49 (0)221 470 2280
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