Maybe the distinction is that what is being mapped here is not so much the physical - which is present in the 'background' - but rather the additional properties of the physical objects - the rating of the restaurant, the number of public complaints about a police station, etc.
I'm not sure early writers conceived of our ability to overlay information on what is right in front of us - they missed the augmentation aspect and focused on the reality part. On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Christian Willmes <[email protected]>wrote: > In my opinion there is a huge difference between just geometrical accurancy > (or scale) of to be mapped/modeled objects and the description or the > "mapping" of those objects with its semantical meaning(s) and relations > between them. > For just static physical objects in real world you can do a "1:1" scale, or > a submilimeter precise model, with todays technology (photogrammetrical, > laser scanning etc.) of the pure geometry in 3D/4D space/time. > But if you would like to process some information about any objects and > their relation and meaning in real world, you need to filter this > information to a proper amount of information you can consider for > processing to find your answer. This means for example, If you would like to > process a shortest route between two places, you just need information about > the edges (for you possible crossable pathes) between these nodes, and some > (more) attributes for those edges which might have an influence on the > "best" route. A too precices map/model of the world with all thinkable > possible information would be counterproductive (because you would need to > filter/process more), for this purpose... > > There are technologies for considering/processing same data under different > scales, as for example Level of Detail... but essentially you need to stay > focused on what you want/need to map/model/analyse/visualize to find your > solutions/answers. > > As I cited Alfred Korzybsky some time ago on this list, it fits here very > well again: "The map is not the territory". ;-) > > best regards, > Christian > Andy Turner schrieb: > >> Hi, >> >> Thanks Edward for the links. >> >> All the best with the AR work everyone doing that. >> >> I go along with Alan, Eric and Pablo. 1:1 Scale is fine, but what detail >> is wanted, what resolution, what objects are simplified in this map? We >> can’t have all views from everywhere unless they are in some way >> generalised! >> >> As a geographer I am focusing at a human scale, and at the moment I am >> doing social simulation work with a model that operates on the individual >> person level, but which contains details of each individuals family >> relationships, location, destination, heading and a history of interactions. >> >> I think a measure of scale ratio is most useful when considering >> cartographic generalisation or magnification or shrinkage of images. Scale >> itself is important when considering high resolution >> spatial-temporal-attribute data models, but the closer these become to 1:1 >> for any slice through that tri-space, the less one can assert the scale >> ratio and attach meaning to it. I like the different resolution models >> suggested in Permutation City by Greg Egan, a stimulating read if you have >> the time… Of course atoms aren’t really the smallest stuff! Anyway… back to >> work… >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Andy >> http://www.geog.leeds.ac.uk/people/a.turner/ >> >> From: [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Pablo Rodríguez Madroño >> Sent: 09 February 2010 11:10 >> To: geowanking >> Subject: Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping >> >> But I think that AR is not strictly producing maps, at least in a >> "classical" sense. It only appends a set of 1:1 features to a physical >> reality, and the results lose all the practicity once the reality goes away. >> >> For me, the maps of Borges and Carroll are impractical in the sense that >> the base cartography is part of the result, whereas in AR there is no base >> cartography, and that's what makes the idea so powerful. >> >> -- >> Pablo Rodríguez Madroño >> >> 2010/2/9 Eric Wolf <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> >> Don't forget that we regularly see maps that are even larger scale than >> 1:1! Xrays, circuit diagrams, CPU lithographs, organic chemical symbols. >> >> And CAD normally deals with what is essentially a 1:1 map. >> >> -Eric >> >> -=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=- >> Eric B. Wolf New! 720-334-7734 >> USGS Geographer >> Center of Excellence in GIScience >> PhD Student >> CU-Boulder - Geography >> >> GPG Public Key: http://www.h4h.net/ebwolf.public.key.txt >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Edward Vielmetti < >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> Sounds like maps of Michigan. some examples >> >> http://www.michiganmittens.com/ >> http://cartophilia.com/blog/2008/11/michigan-mittens.html >> http://www.michiblogger.net/372.php >> >> and this from London >> >> http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/02/glove-map/ >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 12:20 AM, R E Sieber <[email protected]<mailto: >> [email protected]>> wrote: >> >> >>> They’re also referred to as anthropomorphic maps. Got this one from one >>> of >>> my listservs" >>> >>> >>> >>>> AM are exactly scale 1:1. Anthropomorphic (body-part) maps were >>>> generated >>>> by configuring the virtual body of a god or goddess over the area to be >>>> mapped. Areas under each part of that body received the name of that >>>> part. >>>> These maps equate geography with (human) anatomy to produce place names >>>> that >>>> indicate where they are located relative to other places on the same >>>> map. >>>> Examples of these maps include "Old Man" Napi (creator of the >>>> Blackfoot >>>> indians) and his "Old Woman" wife in Alberta, Canada; Hermes centered at >>>> Mt. >>>> Hermon (now on the Israeli-Syrian cease-fire line); and Aphrodite in >>>> north >>>> Africa. >>>> >>>> >>> Renee >>> >>> >>> Alan Keown wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Mike, >>>> >>>> Lewis Carrol was, in my opinion, fascinated by the apparent absurdities >>>> that Mathematical concepts can generate when partnered with unbridled >>>> extrapolation (or interpolation). >>>> >>>> As a reality check I would say that >>>> >>>> § “we” are not really creating maps; we make “models” of the real world >>>> that can be presented as maps. >>>> >>>> § it will be a long time before we have anything like general coverage >>>> at >>>> a “scale” of even 1:1000, let alone 1:1 >>>> >>>> § “we” will not map everything – leaves on trees, blades of grass, door >>>> handles (the list goes on) >>>> >>>> Which leads me to the email signature I used to use before adopting the >>>> Sylvie and Bruno quote several years ago: >>>> >>>> “If I have a 1:1 model of the universe, does that make me God?” >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> AlanK >>>> >>>> /“…And then came the grandest idea of all! / >>>> >>>> /We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the >>>> mile!/ >>>> >>>> /Have you used it much? I enquired. // >>>> //It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: / >>>> >>>> /the farmers objected:/ >>>> >>>> /they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight!/ >>>> >>>> /So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it >>>> does nearly as well…”/ >>>> — Lewis Carroll. /The complete Sylvie and Bruno./ 1893. >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From:* [email protected]<mailto: >>>> [email protected]> >>>> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto: >>>> [email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Mike Liebhold >>>> >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 9 February 2010 10:22 AM >>>> *To:* David Asbury >>>> *Cc:* [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping >>>> >>>> wow thanks to both! this is a trove! >>>> http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP >>>> >>>> jorge luis borges, lewis carrol, gregory bateson, david foster wallace, >>>> ... >>>> >>>> the crazy thing is we're building this 1:1 AR map. modern augmented >>>> aeality is becoming precisely what lewis carrol said here: " the country >>>> itself, as its own map" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/8/10 2:44 PM, David Asbury wrote: >>>> >>>> And, of course, the classic: >>>> >>>> And then came the grandest idea of all! We actually made a map of the >>>> country, on the scale of a mile to the mile!" >>>> >>>> "Have you used it much?" I enquired. >>>> >>>> "It has never been spread out, yet," said Mein Herr: "the farmers >>>> objected: they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the >>>> sunlight! So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure >>>> you >>>> it does nearly as well. >>>> >>>> -- Lewis Carroll, Sylvie and Bruno Concluded (1893). >>>> >>>> Here are a number of other thoughts... >>>> >>>> http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP >>>> >>>> David >>>> >>>> Brandon Martin-Anderson wrote: >>>> >>>> Here's a story about 1:1 mapping: >>>> >>>> """ >>>> On Exactitude in Science . . . In that Empire, the Art of Cartography >>>> attained such Perfection that the map of a single Province occupied >>>> the entirety of a City, and the map of the Empire, the entirety of a >>>> Province. In time, those Unconscionable Maps no longer satisfied, and >>>> the Cartographers Guilds struck a Map of the Empire whose size was >>>> that of the Empire, and which coincided point for point with it. The >>>> following Generations, who were not so fond of the Study of >>>> Cartography as their Forebears had been, saw that that vast Map was >>>> Useless, and not without some Pitilessness was it, that they delivered >>>> it up to the Inclemencies of Sun and Winters. In the Deserts of the >>>> West, still today, there are Tattered Ruins of that Map, inhabited by >>>> Animals and Beggars; in all the Land there is no other Relic of the >>>> Disciplines of Geography. >>>> >>>> Suarez Miranda,Viajes de varones prudentes, Libro IV,Cap. XLV, Lerida, >>>> 1658 >>>> >>>> From Jorge Luis Borges, Collected Fictions, Translated by Andrew >>>> >>>> Hurley Copyright Penguin 1999 . >>>> """ >>>> >>>> -B >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Mike Liebhold <[email protected]<mailto: >>>> [email protected]>> >>>> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> the arrival of viewfinder AR (augmented reality) is opening lots of >>>> opportunities for near field focal plane maps of very dense local data. >>>> >>>> e.g. "show me labels, links, annotations and attributes for things and >>>> places in my field of view" >>>> >>>> is 1:1 scale mapping a reasonable idea? >>>> >>>> can anyone here share pointers or stories about 1:1 scale mapping and >>>> why >>>> the idea has generated ridicule in the past? >>>> >>>> >>>> ??? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Geowanking mailing list >>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <mailto: >>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> >>>> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Geowanking mailing list >>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <mailto: >>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> >>>> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Geowanking mailing list >>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>>> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Geowanking mailing list >>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>> >>> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Edward Vielmetti >> Ann Arbor, MI 48104 >> >> Google Voice: +1 734 330 2465 >> Web: http://vielmetti.typepad.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Geowanking mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> >> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Geowanking mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Geowanking mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >> >> > > > -- > Christian Willmes > AG GIS & Fernerkundung | GIS & RS Group > Geographisches Institut | Institute of Geography > Universität zu Köln | University of Cologne > Tel.: +49 (0)221 470 6234 > Fax.: +49 (0)221 470 2280 > http://www.geographie.uni-koeln.de/gis > http://www.sfb806.de > > > > _______________________________________________ > Geowanking mailing list > [email protected] > http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >
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