In it's ideal form (no artificial information decay) the algo is n*n Every node communicates it's position to every other node

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>From the node's perspective, it considers the positions of every other node and it's relationship to the node before making a move If n*n will scale to 5M nodes on giraph then it's simple If not, we have to condense the messaging -- Barnes-Hut simulation using an Octree or Quadtree structure is one option -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnes%E2%80%93Hut_simulation -- this reduces the algo to n*log(n), but adds an additional graph to consider On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Claudio Martella <claudio.marte...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ok, but why a bipartite graph? I can imagine you can have 2 or 3 > coordinates associated with each vertices without actually having multiple > vertex types. > > > On Wednesday, March 7, 2012, Timmy Wilson <tim...@smarttypes.org> wrote: >>> while i'd expect from linlog something like an (x,y) coordinate. is >>> that correct? >> >> (x,y,z) is also common -- i think of it as extreme dimension reduction >> -- after which you're free to use your favorite gis tool -- >> http://postgis.refractions.net/ -- you can also pull in tools from >> statistical mechanics/thermodynamics >> >> Without complicating the algo for efficiency -- the essence of the >> energy model is simple -- all nodes repulse each other -- connected >> nodes attract each other -- this works for any type of graph -- i'm >> using a weighted directed graph -- in which case the weighs influence >> the attractive force >> >> It's all very continuous/natural -- living in a 3d world we've build a >> lot of tools/methods to process this kind of information >> >> The problem is without efficiency methods like Barnes-Hut we have >> Cartesian(x,y) or Cartesian(x,y,z) -- because every vertex influences >> every other vertex >> >> An efficient giraph implementation would need 2 layers -- a bipartite >> graph -- assuming (x,y,z) reduction -- we would need an Octree graph >> interacting dynamically w/ our graph of interest >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 5:00 AM, Claudio Martella >> <claudio.marte...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> My personal take is that they do have similar function (they "extract" >>> communities), but they have a general different type of output. in >>> label propagation you'd end up with an id for each vertex (the vertex >>> id that is the centroid for the community each vertex belongs to), >>> while i'd expect from linlog something like an (x,y) coordinate. is >>> that correct? >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 2:45 AM, Timmy Wilson <tim...@smarttypes.org> > wrote: >>>> Thank you everyone! >>>> >>>> I would love to see a comparison of force directed layouts >>>> (specifically LinLog) and label propagation. >>>> >>>> I searched but alas nothing -- they seem to be oddly similar? >>>> >>>> The current, serial LinLog implementation -- >>>> http://code.google.com/p/linloglayout/ -- uses Barnes-Hut simulation >>>> -- n*log(n): >>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnes%E2%80%93Hut_simulation >>>> >>>> I guess the root question is -- do you think it's reasonable to use >>>> giraph for Barnes-Hut simulation? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Claudio Martella >>>> <claudio.marte...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I'm not definitely familiar with the algorithm or implementation of >>>>> LinLog, I've been just a user. It should be doable with Giraph if you >>>>> can express it in terms of message-passing between vertices and >>>>> without a dependency on a global view of the graph (except for the >>>>> convergence criteria, such as total energy). >>>>> >>>>> Please consider that Giraph's data model is based on a directed graph, >>>>> this should be a quite "interesting" constraint for you, if your >>>>> implementation is going to modify energy associated with edges (you'd >>>>> have two views over the undirected edge, one in each endpoint). >>>>> >>>>> In general, a good way of doing community analysis would be to look at >>>>> algorithms that belong to the family of label-propagation clustering >>>>> algorithms. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hope this helps, >>>>> Claudio >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 3:28 PM, Timmy Wilson <tim...@smarttypes.org> > wrote: >>>>>> Hi giraph community, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm interested in using giraph for distributed n-body simulation. >>>>>> >>>>>> Initially, i'm interested in force directed layouts -- ie, graph > drawing: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-based_algorithms_(graph_drawing) >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm interested specifically in Dr. Andreas Noack's LinLog energy model >>>>>> -- which performs well w/ community detection: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.informatik.tu-cottbus.de/~an/GD/linlog.html >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a few examples of a serial implementation here: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.smarttypes.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> The model maximizes the distance between all nodes while minimizing >>>>>> the distance between connected nodes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Without getting into too much detail, i'm curious if anyone has >>>>>> considered using giraph for force directed graph embedding (yet >>>>>> another name for it)? >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm also considering something like http://www.mcs.anl.gov/petsc/ or >>>>>> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~scandal/alg/nbody.html -- which have fast >> > > -- > Claudio Martella > claudio.marte...@gmail.com