Thanks! I think I will scetch a bit futher on this but wait until the first Sta.li is out to use as a template. I imagine that it will be easier to move around clearly defined static binaries (in fact, probably will involve a lot of itterative "copy alternative binary to /bin and see what breaks after reboot of VM copy" kind of stuff since I am no expert in how these things work).
by the way... according to the Gentoo documentation init is handled by an rc script - is this the "same" rc as the Plan9-type rc or just similar names? 2010/6/3 Jorden M <[email protected]> > That would be relatively simple, I think, as long as you are ok with > splitting the plan 9/linux stuff into separate namespaces. /usr would > then simply be bind-mounted to /home in the other namespace. > > Again, this would make things feel too separate, I think. e.g., I > couldn't in that scenario use 9term to navigate into /etc and edit a > file with sam without doing work first. > > I should hasten to add that of course, there could be mutual binds > that let both namespaces peek into each other. That could be awkward, > but a sane design could perhaps make it work. > > On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Jens Staal <[email protected]> wrote: > > I am curious to see how the Sta.li guys will deal with that issue > actually. > > At least from their "outline" it seems like they are trying to purge > their > > system as much as possible from GNU. Personally I have no strong feelings > > either way (about GNU), but I find it VERY interesting with projects > trying > > to do something entirely different and innovative (hence me lurking > around > > here asking stupid questions and coming up with impractical ideas). > > Just another reflection on the "APE" chroot/bind idea (if possible). > Another > > cool thing it would enable (if it is at all possible to make a base > system > > that runs (relatively) purely on Plan9/Glendix and Plan9port binaries) > would > > be the freedom to re-define the file system hierarchy for the base system > to > > look like that on Plan9 (users in /usr rather than /home etc...), whereas > it > > from within the "APE" environment would look like a standard file system > > hierarchy (since things would be mounted that way in the chroot/other > > chroot-like solution). > > Thanks for coming up with healthy critisism. > > > > 2010/6/2 Jorden M <[email protected]> > >> > >> Not true. Since the Glendix kernel is just Linux with some patches, at > >> least the bare bones of the usual Linux system will be there to get > >> things to boot (and get networking, graphics, etc. working). Even if > >> you restrict yourself to what runs immediately from init up to a login > >> screen, you're going to have a lot of programs that will need to have > >> a special environment made for them in the event of /bin being filled > >> with Plan 9 programs. > >> > >> Trying to figure out which programs depend on GNU features in binutils > >> programs so that they could be kept outside the special environment is > >> more work than it's worth. > >> > >> Having separate namespaces for all plan 9 and Linux programs would > >> work and probably perform ok, but the barrier created by the > >> namespaces may make things very inconvenient. Note that the simple > >> solution of having separate $PATHs will not work, since many programs > >> will call binutils with the full path specified. > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Jens Staal <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > I think it is one or the other depending on a particular use case. For > >> > the > >> > supposedly vast majority of users Glendix or Plan9ports will probably > >> > just > >> > complement their standard GNU/Linux. For that use-case, there already > >> > are > >> > ports for Gentoo, for example. If Glendix would develop a "poster > child" > >> > distro, however, I assume that it would benefit from highlighting its > >> > unique > >> > characteristics rather than just being another re-spin on the > GNU/Linux > >> > theme with some added features. > >> > Perhaps more a symbolic rather than technical observation - but most > >> > decisions made are not rational anyways... > >> > > >> > 2010/6/2 Jorden M <[email protected]> > >> >> > >> >> Bind mounts would work, also, I'm just thinking the vast amount (and > >> >> size) of GNU/Linux programs would make things perform worse if you > had > >> >> to set up some special environment for every one that gets run, > >> >> especially considering most of the programs running at any given time > >> >> will be native Linux programs, not the Plan 9 ports. But perhaps not. > >> >> > >> >> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Jens Staal <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> > Only if you got programs that expect such behaviour in the base > >> >> > system > >> >> > and > >> >> > not exclusively run them in the "APE" (chroot?) environment with > >> >> > legacy > >> >> > GNU > >> >> > binaries. > >> >> > > >> >> > 2010/6/2 Jorden Mauro <[email protected]> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> You'll break programs that expect GNU options. grep -A, for > example. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Jun 2, 2010, at 1:43 AM, staalmannen <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> Thanks for explaining the difference. I guessed I had made a > couple > >> >> >>> of > >> >> >>> too simplistic assumptions. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> On the other hand, would it be feasible to use a mix of native > >> >> >>> Plan9 > >> >> >>> on Glendix and Plan9port (static)binaries in the default /bin as > >> >> >>> primary utilities and the regular GNU stuff in some sort of "APE" > >> >> >>> directory? (something not recommended by the plan9port guys, but > on > >> >> >>> the other hand that is on a "normal" GNU/Linux distribution, > >> >> >>> whereas > >> >> >>> this hypothetical glendix distribution -as far as I see- more > would > >> >> >>> be > >> >> >>> about proof-of-concept where the plan9port portion could be > >> >> >>> gradually > >> >> >>> reduced as Glendix gets more and more native Plan9 binaries to > >> >> >>> execute > >> >> >>> correctly). > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> On 31 Maj, 19:58, Jorden Mauro <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> Wmii does not create a draw device. It uses 9p for control, more > >> >> >>>> like > >> >> >>>> the FS rio or acme post. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> You could implement draw on top of X11, or even the Linux > >> >> >>>> framebuffer. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> On May 31, 2010, at 1:10 PM, staalmannen <[email protected]> > >> >> >>>> wrote: > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>> I was looking around a bit and the Suckless.org Sta.li (http:// > >> >> >>>>> sta.li/) distribution that is in the works seems to be a > pretty > >> >> >>>>> good > >> >> >>>>> fit for a glendix-type distro, since it already tries to > >> >> >>>>> Plan9-like > >> >> >>>>> in > >> >> >>>>> some ways (initiation scripts, static linking). Something built > >> >> >>>>> on > >> >> >>>>> that (perhaps with a Gobo-hide patch to make a Plan9-like file > >> >> >>>>> hierarchy) could be cool. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>> After reading through the different projects at Suckless, I > came > >> >> >>>>> across that wmii actually has a 9P interface (http:// > >> >> >>>>> wmii.suckless.org/). Sorry for my ignorance, but would it > >> >> >>>>> (theoretically) be possible to "complement" the things that do > >> >> >>>>> not > >> >> >>>>> yet > >> >> >>>>> work natively under Linux with Glendix-patches using > >> >> >>>>> Plan9port+wmii+P9 > >> >> >>>>> mount of wmii to /dev/draw? If the lack of /dev/draw is a > >> >> >>>>> temporary > >> >> >>>>> "blocker bug" for some Plan9 stuff to work under Glendix, > perhaps > >> >> >>>>> that > >> >> >>>>> could be a temporary solution? > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>> I suppose the bigger "blocker bug" is the private namespaces > >> >> >>>>> stuff. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>> I have no clear idea how the different Plan9 binaries are > >> >> >>>>> interdependent and whether something like that would work. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>> On 19 Maj, 20:51, vh4x0r <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> Hi, I'm interested in contributing to the project for creation > >> >> >>>>>> of a > >> >> >>>>>> distro based on Glendix and Gentoo. I have acquainted myself > >> >> >>>>>> with > >> >> >>>>>> Glendix, and also have a lot of experience with Gentoo. Can > you > >> >> >>>>>> please > >> >> >>>>>> provide me with some pointers about where to start ? > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>>> -- > >> >> >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >>>>>> [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > >> >> >>>>>> For more options, visit this group > >> >> >>>>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/ > >> >> >>>>>> glendix?hl=en > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>> -- > >> >> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> >> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >>>>> [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > >> >> >>>>> For more options, visit this group > >> >> >>>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> -- > >> >> >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >>> [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > >> >> >>> For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >> [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > >> >> >> For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > >> >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > >> >> For more options, visit this group at > >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> > > >> > -- > >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> > http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> > >> -- > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > > > > -- > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > > -- > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > -- To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en
