an e-build for the disk image of a modified Glendix/Plan9port/Sta.li system?
I suppose the "base architecture" should be relatively easy to "port" to different distros, where basically just the "APE" sandbox (chroot) is changed to whatever distro you prefer. The ideas I outlined are still on a scetch-stage and I will probably first have to familiarize myself with Sta.li as it gets released (hopefully this will be easy since it should be relatively "clean", few "moving parts" (dynamically linked binaries), and small (apparently according to a gentoo discussion about it, most /bin:s come from OpenBSD, which is an interesting twist). 2010/6/3 EBo <[email protected]> > Jens, > > If you get this all pulled together I will take a look at it and see if I > cane break away a little time to write another Gentoo ebuild for it. > > EBo -- > > On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 07:45:04 +0200, Jens Staal <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks! > > > > I think I will scetch a bit futher on this but wait until the first > Sta.li > > is out to use as a template. I imagine that it will be easier to move > > around > > clearly defined static binaries (in fact, probably will involve a lot of > > itterative "copy alternative binary to /bin and see what breaks after > > reboot > > of VM copy" kind of stuff since I am no expert in how these things > work). > > > > by the way... according to the Gentoo documentation init is handled by > an > > rc > > script - is this the "same" rc as the Plan9-type rc or just similar > names? > > > > 2010/6/3 Jorden M <[email protected]> > > > >> That would be relatively simple, I think, as long as you are ok with > >> splitting the plan 9/linux stuff into separate namespaces. /usr would > >> then simply be bind-mounted to /home in the other namespace. > >> > >> Again, this would make things feel too separate, I think. e.g., I > >> couldn't in that scenario use 9term to navigate into /etc and edit a > >> file with sam without doing work first. > >> > >> I should hasten to add that of course, there could be mutual binds > >> that let both namespaces peek into each other. That could be awkward, > >> but a sane design could perhaps make it work. > >> > >> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Jens Staal <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > I am curious to see how the Sta.li guys will deal with that issue > >> actually. > >> > At least from their "outline" it seems like they are trying to purge > >> their > >> > system as much as possible from GNU. Personally I have no strong > >> > feelings > >> > either way (about GNU), but I find it VERY interesting with projects > >> trying > >> > to do something entirely different and innovative (hence me lurking > >> around > >> > here asking stupid questions and coming up with impractical ideas). > >> > Just another reflection on the "APE" chroot/bind idea (if possible). > >> Another > >> > cool thing it would enable (if it is at all possible to make a base > >> system > >> > that runs (relatively) purely on Plan9/Glendix and Plan9port > binaries) > >> would > >> > be the freedom to re-define the file system hierarchy for the base > >> > system > >> to > >> > look like that on Plan9 (users in /usr rather than /home etc...), > >> > whereas > >> it > >> > from within the "APE" environment would look like a standard file > >> > system > >> > hierarchy (since things would be mounted that way in the chroot/other > >> > chroot-like solution). > >> > Thanks for coming up with healthy critisism. > >> > > >> > 2010/6/2 Jorden M <[email protected]> > >> >> > >> >> Not true. Since the Glendix kernel is just Linux with some patches, > at > >> >> least the bare bones of the usual Linux system will be there to get > >> >> things to boot (and get networking, graphics, etc. working). Even if > >> >> you restrict yourself to what runs immediately from init up to a > login > >> >> screen, you're going to have a lot of programs that will need to > have > >> >> a special environment made for them in the event of /bin being > filled > >> >> with Plan 9 programs. > >> >> > >> >> Trying to figure out which programs depend on GNU features in > binutils > >> >> programs so that they could be kept outside the special environment > is > >> >> more work than it's worth. > >> >> > >> >> Having separate namespaces for all plan 9 and Linux programs would > >> >> work and probably perform ok, but the barrier created by the > >> >> namespaces may make things very inconvenient. Note that the simple > >> >> solution of having separate $PATHs will not work, since many > programs > >> >> will call binutils with the full path specified. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Jens Staal <[email protected]> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > I think it is one or the other depending on a particular use case. > >> >> > For > >> >> > the > >> >> > supposedly vast majority of users Glendix or Plan9ports will > >> >> > probably > >> >> > just > >> >> > complement their standard GNU/Linux. For that use-case, there > >> >> > already > >> >> > are > >> >> > ports for Gentoo, for example. If Glendix would develop a "poster > >> child" > >> >> > distro, however, I assume that it would benefit from highlighting > >> >> > its > >> >> > unique > >> >> > characteristics rather than just being another re-spin on the > >> GNU/Linux > >> >> > theme with some added features. > >> >> > Perhaps more a symbolic rather than technical observation - but > most > >> >> > decisions made are not rational anyways... > >> >> > > >> >> > 2010/6/2 Jorden M <[email protected]> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Bind mounts would work, also, I'm just thinking the vast amount > >> >> >> (and > >> >> >> size) of GNU/Linux programs would make things perform worse if > you > >> had > >> >> >> to set up some special environment for every one that gets run, > >> >> >> especially considering most of the programs running at any given > >> >> >> time > >> >> >> will be native Linux programs, not the Plan 9 ports. But perhaps > >> >> >> not. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Jens Staal <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> >> >> > Only if you got programs that expect such behaviour in the base > >> >> >> > system > >> >> >> > and > >> >> >> > not exclusively run them in the "APE" (chroot?) environment > with > >> >> >> > legacy > >> >> >> > GNU > >> >> >> > binaries. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > 2010/6/2 Jorden Mauro <[email protected]> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> You'll break programs that expect GNU options. grep -A, for > >> example. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On Jun 2, 2010, at 1:43 AM, staalmannen <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> Thanks for explaining the difference. I guessed I had made a > >> couple > >> >> >> >>> of > >> >> >> >>> too simplistic assumptions. > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> On the other hand, would it be feasible to use a mix of > native > >> >> >> >>> Plan9 > >> >> >> >>> on Glendix and Plan9port (static)binaries in the default /bin > >> >> >> >>> as > >> >> >> >>> primary utilities and the regular GNU stuff in some sort of > >> >> >> >>> "APE" > >> >> >> >>> directory? (something not recommended by the plan9port guys, > >> >> >> >>> but > >> on > >> >> >> >>> the other hand that is on a "normal" GNU/Linux distribution, > >> >> >> >>> whereas > >> >> >> >>> this hypothetical glendix distribution -as far as I see- more > >> would > >> >> >> >>> be > >> >> >> >>> about proof-of-concept where the plan9port portion could be > >> >> >> >>> gradually > >> >> >> >>> reduced as Glendix gets more and more native Plan9 binaries > to > >> >> >> >>> execute > >> >> >> >>> correctly). > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> On 31 Maj, 19:58, Jorden Mauro <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>> Wmii does not create a draw device. It uses 9p for control, > >> >> >> >>>> more > >> >> >> >>>> like > >> >> >> >>>> the FS rio or acme post. > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>> You could implement draw on top of X11, or even the Linux > >> >> >> >>>> framebuffer. > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>> On May 31, 2010, at 1:10 PM, staalmannen > <[email protected]> > >> >> >> >>>> wrote: > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>> I was looking around a bit and the Suckless.org Sta.li > >> >> >> >>>>> (http:// > >> >> >> >>>>> sta.li/) distribution that is in the works seems to be a > >> pretty > >> >> >> >>>>> good > >> >> >> >>>>> fit for a glendix-type distro, since it already tries to > >> >> >> >>>>> Plan9-like > >> >> >> >>>>> in > >> >> >> >>>>> some ways (initiation scripts, static linking). Something > >> >> >> >>>>> built > >> >> >> >>>>> on > >> >> >> >>>>> that (perhaps with a Gobo-hide patch to make a Plan9-like > >> >> >> >>>>> file > >> >> >> >>>>> hierarchy) could be cool. > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>> After reading through the different projects at Suckless, I > >> came > >> >> >> >>>>> across that wmii actually has a 9P interface (http:// > >> >> >> >>>>> wmii.suckless.org/). Sorry for my ignorance, but would it > >> >> >> >>>>> (theoretically) be possible to "complement" the things that > >> >> >> >>>>> do > >> >> >> >>>>> not > >> >> >> >>>>> yet > >> >> >> >>>>> work natively under Linux with Glendix-patches using > >> >> >> >>>>> Plan9port+wmii+P9 > >> >> >> >>>>> mount of wmii to /dev/draw? If the lack of /dev/draw is a > >> >> >> >>>>> temporary > >> >> >> >>>>> "blocker bug" for some Plan9 stuff to work under Glendix, > >> perhaps > >> >> >> >>>>> that > >> >> >> >>>>> could be a temporary solution? > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>> I suppose the bigger "blocker bug" is the private > namespaces > >> >> >> >>>>> stuff. > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>> I have no clear idea how the different Plan9 binaries are > >> >> >> >>>>> interdependent and whether something like that would work. > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>> On 19 Maj, 20:51, vh4x0r <[email protected]> > >> >> >> >>>>> wrote: > >> >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >> >>>>>> Hi, I'm interested in contributing to the project for > >> >> >> >>>>>> creation > >> >> >> >>>>>> of a > >> >> >> >>>>>> distro based on Glendix and Gentoo. I have acquainted > myself > >> >> >> >>>>>> with > >> >> >> >>>>>> Glendix, and also have a lot of experience with Gentoo. > Can > >> you > >> >> >> >>>>>> please > >> >> >> >>>>>> provide me with some pointers about where to start ? > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>>> -- > >> >> >> >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to > >> >> >> >>>>>> [email protected] > >> >> >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >> >>>>>> > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > <glendix%[email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > > > >> >> >> >>>>>> For more options, visit this group > >> >> >> >>>>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/ > >> >> >> >>>>>> glendix?hl=en > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>>> -- > >> >> >> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to > [email protected] > >> >> >> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >> >>>>> > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > <glendix%[email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > > > >> >> >> >>>>> For more options, visit this group > >> >> >> >>>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> -- > >> >> >> >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >> >>> > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > <glendix%[email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > > > >> >> >> >>> For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >> >> > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > <glendix%[email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > > > >> >> >> >> For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > -- > >> >> >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >> > > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > <glendix%[email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > > > >> >> >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >> > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > <glendix%[email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > > > >> >> >> For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> > > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > <glendix%[email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > > > >> >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > <glendix%[email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > > > >> >> For more options, visit this group at > >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> > > >> > -- > >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> > > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > <glendix%[email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > > > >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> > http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> > >> -- > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > <glendix%[email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > > > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > >> > > -- > EBo -- [email protected] > > -- > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en > -- To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en
