Jens, If you get this all pulled together I will take a look at it and see if I cane break away a little time to write another Gentoo ebuild for it.
EBo -- On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 07:45:04 +0200, Jens Staal <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks! > > I think I will scetch a bit futher on this but wait until the first Sta.li > is out to use as a template. I imagine that it will be easier to move > around > clearly defined static binaries (in fact, probably will involve a lot of > itterative "copy alternative binary to /bin and see what breaks after > reboot > of VM copy" kind of stuff since I am no expert in how these things work). > > by the way... according to the Gentoo documentation init is handled by an > rc > script - is this the "same" rc as the Plan9-type rc or just similar names? > > 2010/6/3 Jorden M <[email protected]> > >> That would be relatively simple, I think, as long as you are ok with >> splitting the plan 9/linux stuff into separate namespaces. /usr would >> then simply be bind-mounted to /home in the other namespace. >> >> Again, this would make things feel too separate, I think. e.g., I >> couldn't in that scenario use 9term to navigate into /etc and edit a >> file with sam without doing work first. >> >> I should hasten to add that of course, there could be mutual binds >> that let both namespaces peek into each other. That could be awkward, >> but a sane design could perhaps make it work. >> >> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Jens Staal <[email protected]> wrote: >> > I am curious to see how the Sta.li guys will deal with that issue >> actually. >> > At least from their "outline" it seems like they are trying to purge >> their >> > system as much as possible from GNU. Personally I have no strong >> > feelings >> > either way (about GNU), but I find it VERY interesting with projects >> trying >> > to do something entirely different and innovative (hence me lurking >> around >> > here asking stupid questions and coming up with impractical ideas). >> > Just another reflection on the "APE" chroot/bind idea (if possible). >> Another >> > cool thing it would enable (if it is at all possible to make a base >> system >> > that runs (relatively) purely on Plan9/Glendix and Plan9port binaries) >> would >> > be the freedom to re-define the file system hierarchy for the base >> > system >> to >> > look like that on Plan9 (users in /usr rather than /home etc...), >> > whereas >> it >> > from within the "APE" environment would look like a standard file >> > system >> > hierarchy (since things would be mounted that way in the chroot/other >> > chroot-like solution). >> > Thanks for coming up with healthy critisism. >> > >> > 2010/6/2 Jorden M <[email protected]> >> >> >> >> Not true. Since the Glendix kernel is just Linux with some patches, at >> >> least the bare bones of the usual Linux system will be there to get >> >> things to boot (and get networking, graphics, etc. working). Even if >> >> you restrict yourself to what runs immediately from init up to a login >> >> screen, you're going to have a lot of programs that will need to have >> >> a special environment made for them in the event of /bin being filled >> >> with Plan 9 programs. >> >> >> >> Trying to figure out which programs depend on GNU features in binutils >> >> programs so that they could be kept outside the special environment is >> >> more work than it's worth. >> >> >> >> Having separate namespaces for all plan 9 and Linux programs would >> >> work and probably perform ok, but the barrier created by the >> >> namespaces may make things very inconvenient. Note that the simple >> >> solution of having separate $PATHs will not work, since many programs >> >> will call binutils with the full path specified. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Jens Staal <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> > I think it is one or the other depending on a particular use case. >> >> > For >> >> > the >> >> > supposedly vast majority of users Glendix or Plan9ports will >> >> > probably >> >> > just >> >> > complement their standard GNU/Linux. For that use-case, there >> >> > already >> >> > are >> >> > ports for Gentoo, for example. If Glendix would develop a "poster >> child" >> >> > distro, however, I assume that it would benefit from highlighting >> >> > its >> >> > unique >> >> > characteristics rather than just being another re-spin on the >> GNU/Linux >> >> > theme with some added features. >> >> > Perhaps more a symbolic rather than technical observation - but most >> >> > decisions made are not rational anyways... >> >> > >> >> > 2010/6/2 Jorden M <[email protected]> >> >> >> >> >> >> Bind mounts would work, also, I'm just thinking the vast amount >> >> >> (and >> >> >> size) of GNU/Linux programs would make things perform worse if you >> had >> >> >> to set up some special environment for every one that gets run, >> >> >> especially considering most of the programs running at any given >> >> >> time >> >> >> will be native Linux programs, not the Plan 9 ports. But perhaps >> >> >> not. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Jens Staal <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> > Only if you got programs that expect such behaviour in the base >> >> >> > system >> >> >> > and >> >> >> > not exclusively run them in the "APE" (chroot?) environment with >> >> >> > legacy >> >> >> > GNU >> >> >> > binaries. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > 2010/6/2 Jorden Mauro <[email protected]> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> You'll break programs that expect GNU options. grep -A, for >> example. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 2, 2010, at 1:43 AM, staalmannen <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Thanks for explaining the difference. I guessed I had made a >> couple >> >> >> >>> of >> >> >> >>> too simplistic assumptions. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> On the other hand, would it be feasible to use a mix of native >> >> >> >>> Plan9 >> >> >> >>> on Glendix and Plan9port (static)binaries in the default /bin >> >> >> >>> as >> >> >> >>> primary utilities and the regular GNU stuff in some sort of >> >> >> >>> "APE" >> >> >> >>> directory? (something not recommended by the plan9port guys, >> >> >> >>> but >> on >> >> >> >>> the other hand that is on a "normal" GNU/Linux distribution, >> >> >> >>> whereas >> >> >> >>> this hypothetical glendix distribution -as far as I see- more >> would >> >> >> >>> be >> >> >> >>> about proof-of-concept where the plan9port portion could be >> >> >> >>> gradually >> >> >> >>> reduced as Glendix gets more and more native Plan9 binaries to >> >> >> >>> execute >> >> >> >>> correctly). >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> On 31 Maj, 19:58, Jorden Mauro <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> Wmii does not create a draw device. It uses 9p for control, >> >> >> >>>> more >> >> >> >>>> like >> >> >> >>>> the FS rio or acme post. >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> You could implement draw on top of X11, or even the Linux >> >> >> >>>> framebuffer. >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> On May 31, 2010, at 1:10 PM, staalmannen <[email protected]> >> >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>> I was looking around a bit and the Suckless.org Sta.li >> >> >> >>>>> (http:// >> >> >> >>>>> sta.li/) distribution that is in the works seems to be a >> pretty >> >> >> >>>>> good >> >> >> >>>>> fit for a glendix-type distro, since it already tries to >> >> >> >>>>> Plan9-like >> >> >> >>>>> in >> >> >> >>>>> some ways (initiation scripts, static linking). Something >> >> >> >>>>> built >> >> >> >>>>> on >> >> >> >>>>> that (perhaps with a Gobo-hide patch to make a Plan9-like >> >> >> >>>>> file >> >> >> >>>>> hierarchy) could be cool. >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>> After reading through the different projects at Suckless, I >> came >> >> >> >>>>> across that wmii actually has a 9P interface (http:// >> >> >> >>>>> wmii.suckless.org/). Sorry for my ignorance, but would it >> >> >> >>>>> (theoretically) be possible to "complement" the things that >> >> >> >>>>> do >> >> >> >>>>> not >> >> >> >>>>> yet >> >> >> >>>>> work natively under Linux with Glendix-patches using >> >> >> >>>>> Plan9port+wmii+P9 >> >> >> >>>>> mount of wmii to /dev/draw? If the lack of /dev/draw is a >> >> >> >>>>> temporary >> >> >> >>>>> "blocker bug" for some Plan9 stuff to work under Glendix, >> perhaps >> >> >> >>>>> that >> >> >> >>>>> could be a temporary solution? >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>> I suppose the bigger "blocker bug" is the private namespaces >> >> >> >>>>> stuff. >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>> I have no clear idea how the different Plan9 binaries are >> >> >> >>>>> interdependent and whether something like that would work. >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>> On 19 Maj, 20:51, vh4x0r <[email protected]> >> >> >> >>>>> wrote: >> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> Hi, I'm interested in contributing to the project for >> >> >> >>>>>> creation >> >> >> >>>>>> of a >> >> >> >>>>>> distro based on Glendix and Gentoo. I have acquainted myself >> >> >> >>>>>> with >> >> >> >>>>>> Glendix, and also have a lot of experience with Gentoo. Can >> you >> >> >> >>>>>> please >> >> >> >>>>>> provide me with some pointers about where to start ? >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> -- >> >> >> >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >> >> >> >>>>>> [email protected] >> >> >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> >> >>>>>> [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> >> >> >> >>>>>> For more options, visit this group >> >> >> >>>>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/ >> >> >> >>>>>> glendix?hl=en >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>> -- >> >> >> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> >> >> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> >> >>>>> [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> >> >> >> >>>>> For more options, visit this group >> >> >> >>>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> -- >> >> >> >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> >> >>> [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> >> >> >> >>> For more options, visit this group at >> >> >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> >> >> [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> >> >> >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en >> >> >> > >> >> >> > -- >> >> >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> >> > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> >> >> >> > For more options, visit this group at >> >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> >> [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> >> >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> >> >> > For more options, visit this group at >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en >> >> >> >> -- >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en >> > >> > -- >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en >> >> -- >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]<glendix%[email protected]> >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en >> -- EBo -- [email protected] -- To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/glendix?hl=en
