Actually, you’ve made my point which was: Biryani is not Biryani without beef, mutton or chicken in it.
Roland. On Tue, Dec 3, 2024 at 5:54 AM fredericknoronha <[email protected]> wrote: > You're assuming there's something taboo with "beef, mutton or chicken". > Not everyone might see it that way. And, over centuries, perspective could > change too. FN > > On Tuesday, 3 December 2024 at 16:23:28 UTC+5:30 Roland Francis wrote: > >> To ignore the religious element in Portuguese colonialism in favour of >> hunger and greed would be to praise Biryani for its long grained rice and >> fragrant spices while ignoring the beef, mutton or chicken in it. >> >> Roland Francis >> 416-453-3371 <(416)%20453-3371> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 3:12 PM <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> The Portuguese intolerance in Goa until 1961 and in Mozambique until >>> 1974 had nothing to do with religion. It was hunger and greed in Portugal >>> that led many people to colonize and commit crimes in the colonies. The >>> slave trade is an example of this. They were not enslaved in the name of >>> religion. These arguments aim to whitewash Portuguese colonial history. >>> Missionary schools opened the eyes of colonized peoples in Africa. >>> >>> Alberto >>> >>> Sat, 30 Nov, 2024, 5:52 pm 'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via >>> Goa-Research-Net, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Unfortunate as it may be, the fact is that religion has more often been >>>> a tool for violence and intolerance, than a tool for peace, love of one >>>> another and tolerance. Much of what we Portuguese did wrong in our colonial >>>> past was due to our fierce attachment to a particular religion. Just like >>>> much of what is being done wrong today in India has to do with a fanatical >>>> approach to religion by far too many people from all religious backgrounds. >>>> >>>> The Portuguese of the 21st century are not psychologically very >>>> different from the 16th century Portuguese. The difference is that we were >>>> then fiercely religious and care today very little about religion. As a >>>> result we find no difficulty in fully embracing in our community Hindus >>>> from India and Nepal, Muslims from Pakistan, Guinea-Bissau and Mozambique, >>>> Shiites from the Ismaelite community, Orthodox Christians from Romania, the >>>> Ukraine and Russia. Most of us demand only two things to accept people as >>>> co-citizens: that they truly want to be part of our community and that they >>>> speak Portuguese. We are in no way superior to the people of India, and I >>>> have no doubt India would be as peaceful and tolerant a nation as we now >>>> are, once you stop being intolerant about people's religious beliefs. One >>>> may believe in God, but maybe one should stop thinking that God has any >>>> preference for any religion. It's what we do which matters, not what we >>>> believe in. Simple, but clearly so difficult to achieve, in Europe as well >>>> as in Asia... >>>> >>>> Nuno Cardoso da Silva >>>> >>>> >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2024 at 6:23 AM >>>> *From:* "V M" <[email protected]> >>>> *To:* "V M" <[email protected]> >>>> *Subject:* [GRN] Manu Pillai: "There are No Heroes or Villains in >>>> History" (O Heraldo, 30/11/2024) >>>> >>>> https://www.heraldgoa.in/cafe/manu-pillai-there-are-no-heroes-or-villains-in-history/416418 >>>> >>>> Religion and politics are an especially volatile mix in South Asia, >>>> cleaved apart so painfully on the basis of religion in 1947, and roiled on >>>> the same lines again in the 21st century, as majoritarianism surges on all >>>> sides of the post-Partition borders. Here in India, the main divide remains >>>> Hindu-Muslim, with painful consequences – from casual intimidation to >>>> ethnic cleansing – playing out in different locations However, in recent >>>> years, Sikhs and Sikhism have also been targeted as “anti-national”, and >>>> Goa has experienced many silly and childish provocations about Catholics >>>> and Catholicism, including recurring absurdities about who can and can’t be >>>> considered Goencho Saib. >>>> >>>> These slurs haven’t yet added up to much, and it would be unwise to >>>> overreact. However, the increasing conflation of myth and history by the >>>> state is an unhealthy trend. As the distinguished political scientist >>>> Niraja Gopal Jayal reminds us: “In effect, it is an attempt to construe >>>> Indian citizenship as faith-based, in consonance with the idea of a Hindu >>>> majoritarian nation, of which Hindus are natural citizens while Muslims, in >>>> this view, properly belong to Pakistan or Bangladesh. Perfecting this >>>> congruence is the object of the new project of citizenship.” >>>> >>>> Catholics in Goa – and Christians in India – have not been primary >>>> targets in this scenario, and in fact Joseph Francis Pereira – a Pakistani >>>> of Goan origin – was one of the first beneficiaries of the new Citizenship >>>> Amendment Act, which allows Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Parsis, Christians and >>>> Buddhists (but not Muslims) from the neighboring countries to become Indian >>>> citizens if they entered before 2014. >>>> >>>> Yet, there are warning signs, as the senior academic Peter Ronald de >>>> Souza shared in a recent column in *Indian Express*: “A few days ago, >>>> during an argument (in a WhatsApp group), I was told to "go back to >>>> Portugal". Not one to take such abuse without a fight, I responded and >>>> asked my adversary to “go back to Afghanistan”. He was outraged. "I’m not >>>> from Afghanistan," he roared. "Well, I’m not from Portugal," I said. Two >>>> things come together in this brief exchange that are worth thinking about. >>>> My name and his outrage. For him I was obviously the outsider and, equally >>>> obviously, he was the insider. Both for him were self-evidently true. In >>>> this exchange, my argumentativeness faced his righteous anger. He said he >>>> was confronting me because I was evil. That we went to school together more >>>> than half a century ago did not matter.” >>>> >>>> Palpably upset, de Souza writes “I must honestly admit I was surprised >>>> at the vitriol. What began as a discussion on an Indian festival, soon >>>> descended into a toxic spat watched by others who, in their silence, >>>> appeared to endorse his views that it was inadmissible for me to talk about >>>> things Indian, especially Indian culture. What did I know? And who was I >>>> anyway? An Indian on probation! Now I know what Draupadi must have felt in >>>> the assembly when she asked the custodians of dharma her question. They did >>>> not answer. They remained silent.” >>>> >>>> “Who belongs? Who does not belong? What kind of state is being >>>> re-engineered by Hindu nationalism, and where did the historical impetus >>>> come from?” Precisely when it is needed most to help address these >>>> questions, Manu Pillai’s lucid, brilliant new *Gods, Guns and >>>> Missionaries: The Making of the Modern Hindu Identity* is an >>>> invaluable primer on India’s encounter with Western colonialism, and “the >>>> context in which Hindu nationalism – Hindutva, so dominant now in India – >>>> found its *raison d'être*. [It is] a survey of 400 years at most – a >>>> span that supplies the historical setting and much of the emotional >>>> stimulus empowering present-day Hinduism.” >>>> >>>> All serious students of Goan history are strongly urged to read Gods, >>>> Guns and Missionaries for the way it begins alone, a deft and masterly >>>> treatment of colonialism and conversion in the Estado da Índia. This brave >>>> young author – he was born in 1990 – pulls no punches, but also refrains >>>> from cheap shots. This clear-eyed, sure-footed approach is both refreshing >>>> and absolutely required, because the subject is such a potent mix of >>>> history, religion and politics. Here is just one passage, for flavour: “the >>>> Portuguese came into everyday contact with Hindus, armed with scarce >>>> knowledge but copious pre-judgement. The encounter took barely a generation >>>> to turn violent. One factor was that the colonizer’s rigid religiosity had >>>> grown stiffer still in reaction to the anti-Catholic Reformation occurring >>>> in Europe. That is, with the emerging Protestant movement accusing the >>>> Catholic church of perverting the faith, Catholic powers had a special >>>> necessity to demonstrate unequivocal Christian credentials. And here, their >>>> newly acquired Indian enclaves offered a parade ground, packed as they were >>>> with devil-worshipping pagans.” >>>> >>>> To be sure, all this is familiar ground to historians, but serious >>>> scholarship about these episodes is almost never knitted together, >>>> understood or presented with as much panache and storytelling flair as >>>> *Gods, >>>> Guns and Missionaries*. Via email, Pillai told me that “history in our >>>> country--and perhaps elsewhere too--is not merely a rational, academic >>>> inquiry into the past. It is an emotional, political affair. My very first >>>> book invited a Rs 5 crore defamation notice, so I know the risks and perils >>>> involved in presenting complexities from the past. In this context, >>>> historicising religious identities can provoke all kinds of responses. "The >>>> truth" pales here in comparison with how people interpret history to create >>>> "their truth" in the present or as groups; to find meaning by reading >>>> history a certain way. This is true of all communities and identities >>>> everywhere in the world. But today we are also seeing an active cultivation >>>> of animosity by exacerbating elements of divergence in these narratives. >>>> So, when writing a book on modern religious identity formation, yes there >>>> is a fear that some of its contents can be hijacked. Similarly, one can >>>> also be "cancelled" by different sides for not reinforcing their respective >>>> ideological positions. One chapter in the book might annoy the Left and >>>> please the Right. Another might achieve the reverse. But this is the risk >>>> of doing what I do today. One can't do history if worried about reactions. >>>> Even when one is aware of the risks involved in these reactions.” >>>> >>>> As the topic is especially relevant in this Exposition year, I asked >>>> Pillai what to make of the paradox of “Saint” Francis Xavier – an >>>> unstinting zealot who believed in the superiority of his faith – becoming >>>> converted after death into an all-inclusive Indian holy man, who is >>>> addressed by pilgrims from every religion to answer their prayers. He >>>> responded thoughtfully: "We must always view historical figures in their >>>> time and context. Xavier and his proselytising work stemmed from a vision >>>> of the world that emerged from his cultural background, the history of his >>>> part of the world, his education etc. The responses of his brown >>>> interlocutors were also similarly influenced. There is also in this >>>> equation the political power of the Portuguese and their own imperial >>>> goals, which skewed the field in favour of one side over another. We should >>>> be able to speak of this transparently while also recognising that >>>> historical dynamics also evolve and change. The same Portuguese state's >>>> attitudes shifted over time; the memory of Xavier and his work also >>>> changed. These too are real historical processes. History is full of >>>> contradictions. In the battle between "sides" today we can lose sight of >>>> this. There are no heroes and villains in history. Often the same >>>> characters in different contexts can look heroic or villainous, depending >>>> on the prism, the location of the viewer, and so on.” >>>> >>>> Pillai acknowledges that it is difficult to have honest and open >>>> discussions about historical-religious-political issues in India at the >>>> moment, but they must occur nonetheless: “I think conversations help. >>>> Remember that outside of certain political constituencies, most human >>>> beings can take a sensible view of things. It is this mature, reasonable >>>> tendency that must be cultivated. By reacting to others, and their setting >>>> of the terms, we play into their game. Instead, we must engage in dialogue, >>>> speak of Xavier the complex, sometimes "negative" figure while also >>>> recognising the equally historical phenomenon of Xavier as he came to be >>>> recognised and reinterpreted in these same communities, not just by >>>> Catholics but also Hindus. I always say that most things in history are not >>>> a case of "either/or". The word we must embrace is "and". But this is >>>> admittedly easier said than done. I don't know if I have a solution other >>>> than dialogue, and engagement in good faith.” >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAN1wPW65jLiSwu-Zp-NFhDSLJ40Lp4Ua_5KH2urrQdBm2Lhxng%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAN1wPW65jLiSwu-Zp-NFhDSLJ40Lp4Ua_5KH2urrQdBm2Lhxng%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/trinity-9fad9968-f92c-46e7-9502-353eb886cd1c-1732968621731%403c-app-mailcom-bs07 >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/trinity-9fad9968-f92c-46e7-9502-353eb886cd1c-1732968621731%403c-app-mailcom-bs07?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to >>> [email protected] >>> . >>> To view this discussion, visit >>> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAGVMO%2BuFpNRSjQWMa4W-gmJF-jQOMpktjt2Jx7rrZdMzV5--bw%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAGVMO%2BuFpNRSjQWMa4W-gmJF-jQOMpktjt2Jx7rrZdMzV5--bw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> >>> . >>> >>> >>> ----- Fim da mensagem de Crispino Lobo <[email protected]> ----- >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20241202095922.Horde.2PK63Txk5COycKX4L8q2U22%40mail.sapo.pt >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20241202095922.Horde.2PK63Txk5COycKX4L8q2U22%40mail.sapo.pt?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Goa-Research-Net" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/3294c2ff-fc17-4490-9a3a-0b160182eb44n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/3294c2ff-fc17-4490-9a3a-0b160182eb44n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CA%2Bx1-5QbaZcdO9ZWmQ_AY4y3WJkcLqTaYoXktOmpNaX_gthS3Q%40mail.gmail.com.
