I agree Roland. And some wisecracks make mushroom biryanis! How idiotic canine get?
Mervyn Maciel I also can’t stand them when some make chicken or beef vindalho when only pork is the main ingredient. I may have lost half my bra during my rec stint in hospital being treated for chronic bleed in my brain but thanks to the care of the medical staff and unfailing love of family, I feel I’m on the mend! Sent from my iPad > On 3 Dec 2024, at 19:39, Roland Francis <[email protected]> wrote: > > Actually, you’ve made my point which was: > Biryani is not Biryani without beef, mutton or chicken in it. > > Roland. > > >> On Tue, Dec 3, 2024 at 5:54 AM fredericknoronha <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> You're assuming there's something taboo with "beef, mutton or chicken". Not >> everyone might see it that way. And, over centuries, perspective could >> change too. FN >> >>> On Tuesday, 3 December 2024 at 16:23:28 UTC+5:30 Roland Francis wrote: >>> To ignore the religious element in Portuguese colonialism in favour of >>> hunger and greed would be to praise Biryani for its long grained rice and >>> fragrant spices while ignoring the beef, mutton or chicken in it. >>> >>> Roland Francis >>> 416-453-3371 >>> >>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 3:12 PM <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> The Portuguese intolerance in Goa until 1961 and in Mozambique until 1974 >>>> had nothing to do with religion. It was hunger and greed in Portugal that >>>> led many people to colonize and commit crimes in the colonies. The slave >>>> trade is an example of this. They were not enslaved in the name of >>>> religion. These arguments aim to whitewash Portuguese colonial history. >>>> Missionary schools opened the eyes of colonized peoples in Africa. >>>> >>>> Alberto >>>> >>>> Sat, 30 Nov, 2024, 5:52 pm 'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via Goa-Research-Net, >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> Unfortunate as it may be, the fact is that religion has more often been >>>>>> a tool for violence and intolerance, than a tool for peace, love of one >>>>>> another and tolerance. Much of what we Portuguese did wrong in our >>>>>> colonial past was due to our fierce attachment to a particular religion. >>>>>> Just like much of what is being done wrong today in India has to do with >>>>>> a fanatical approach to religion by far too many people from all >>>>>> religious backgrounds. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Portuguese of the 21st century are not psychologically very >>>>>> different from the 16th century Portuguese. The difference is that we >>>>>> were then fiercely religious and care today very little about religion. >>>>>> As a result we find no difficulty in fully embracing in our community >>>>>> Hindus from India and Nepal, Muslims from Pakistan, Guinea-Bissau and >>>>>> Mozambique, Shiites from the Ismaelite community, Orthodox Christians >>>>>> from Romania, the Ukraine and Russia. Most of us demand only two things >>>>>> to accept people as co-citizens: that they truly want to be part of our >>>>>> community and that they speak Portuguese. We are in no way superior to >>>>>> the people of India, and I have no doubt India would be as peaceful and >>>>>> tolerant a nation as we now are, once you stop being intolerant about >>>>>> people's religious beliefs. One may believe in God, but maybe one should >>>>>> stop thinking that God has any preference for any religion. It's what we >>>>>> do which matters, not what we believe in. Simple, but clearly so >>>>>> difficult to achieve, in Europe as well as in Asia... >>>>>> >>>>>> Nuno Cardoso da Silva >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 at 6:23 AM >>>>>> From: "V M" <[email protected]> >>>>>> To: "V M" <[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: [GRN] Manu Pillai: "There are No Heroes or Villains in History" >>>>>> (O Heraldo, 30/11/2024) >>>>>> https://www.heraldgoa.in/cafe/manu-pillai-there-are-no-heroes-or-villains-in-history/416418 >>>>>> >>>>>> Religion and politics are an especially volatile mix in South Asia, >>>>>> cleaved apart so painfully on the basis of religion in 1947, and roiled >>>>>> on the same lines again in the 21st century, as majoritarianism surges >>>>>> on all sides of the post-Partition borders. Here in India, the main >>>>>> divide remains Hindu-Muslim, with painful consequences – from casual >>>>>> intimidation to ethnic cleansing – playing out in different locations >>>>>> However, in recent years, Sikhs and Sikhism have also been targeted as >>>>>> “anti-national”, and Goa has experienced many silly and childish >>>>>> provocations about Catholics and Catholicism, including recurring >>>>>> absurdities about who can and can’t be considered Goencho Saib. >>>>>> >>>>>> These slurs haven’t yet added up to much, and it would be unwise to >>>>>> overreact. However, the increasing conflation of myth and history by the >>>>>> state is an unhealthy trend. As the distinguished political scientist >>>>>> Niraja Gopal Jayal reminds us: “In effect, it is an attempt to construe >>>>>> Indian citizenship as faith-based, in consonance with the idea of a >>>>>> Hindu majoritarian nation, of which Hindus are natural citizens while >>>>>> Muslims, in this view, properly belong to Pakistan or Bangladesh. >>>>>> Perfecting this congruence is the object of the new project of >>>>>> citizenship.” >>>>>> >>>>>> Catholics in Goa – and Christians in India – have not been primary >>>>>> targets in this scenario, and in fact Joseph Francis Pereira – a >>>>>> Pakistani of Goan origin – was one of the first beneficiaries of the new >>>>>> Citizenship Amendment Act, which allows Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Parsis, >>>>>> Christians and Buddhists (but not Muslims) from the neighboring >>>>>> countries to become Indian citizens if they entered before 2014. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yet, there are warning signs, as the senior academic Peter Ronald de >>>>>> Souza shared in a recent column in Indian Express: “A few days ago, >>>>>> during an argument (in a WhatsApp group), I was told to "go back to >>>>>> Portugal". Not one to take such abuse without a fight, I responded and >>>>>> asked my adversary to “go back to Afghanistan”. He was outraged. "I’m >>>>>> not from Afghanistan," he roared. "Well, I’m not from Portugal," I said. >>>>>> Two things come together in this brief exchange that are worth thinking >>>>>> about. My name and his outrage. For him I was obviously the outsider >>>>>> and, equally obviously, he was the insider. Both for him were >>>>>> self-evidently true. In this exchange, my argumentativeness faced his >>>>>> righteous anger. He said he was confronting me because I was evil. That >>>>>> we went to school together more than half a century ago did not matter.” >>>>>> >>>>>> Palpably upset, de Souza writes “I must honestly admit I was surprised >>>>>> at the vitriol. What began as a discussion on an Indian festival, soon >>>>>> descended into a toxic spat watched by others who, in their silence, >>>>>> appeared to endorse his views that it was inadmissible for me to talk >>>>>> about things Indian, especially Indian culture. What did I know? And who >>>>>> was I anyway? An Indian on probation! Now I know what Draupadi must have >>>>>> felt in the assembly when she asked the custodians of dharma her >>>>>> question. They did not answer. They remained silent.” >>>>>> >>>>>> “Who belongs? Who does not belong? What kind of state is being >>>>>> re-engineered by Hindu nationalism, and where did the historical impetus >>>>>> come from?” Precisely when it is needed most to help address these >>>>>> questions, Manu Pillai’s lucid, brilliant new Gods, Guns and >>>>>> Missionaries: The Making of the Modern Hindu Identity is an invaluable >>>>>> primer on India’s encounter with Western colonialism, and “the context >>>>>> in which Hindu nationalism – Hindutva, so dominant now in India – found >>>>>> its raison d'être. [It is] a survey of 400 years at most – a span that >>>>>> supplies the historical setting and much of the emotional stimulus >>>>>> empowering present-day Hinduism.” >>>>>> >>>>>> All serious students of Goan history are strongly urged to read Gods, >>>>>> Guns and Missionaries for the way it begins alone, a deft and masterly >>>>>> treatment of colonialism and conversion in the Estado da Índia. This >>>>>> brave young author – he was born in 1990 – pulls no punches, but also >>>>>> refrains from cheap shots. This clear-eyed, sure-footed approach is both >>>>>> refreshing and absolutely required, because the subject is such a potent >>>>>> mix of history, religion and politics. Here is just one passage, for >>>>>> flavour: “the Portuguese came into everyday contact with Hindus, armed >>>>>> with scarce knowledge but copious pre-judgement. The encounter took >>>>>> barely a generation to turn violent. One factor was that the colonizer’s >>>>>> rigid religiosity had grown stiffer still in reaction to the >>>>>> anti-Catholic Reformation occurring in Europe. That is, with the >>>>>> emerging Protestant movement accusing the Catholic church of perverting >>>>>> the faith, Catholic powers had a special necessity to demonstrate >>>>>> unequivocal Christian credentials. And here, their newly acquired Indian >>>>>> enclaves offered a parade ground, packed as they were with >>>>>> devil-worshipping pagans.” >>>>>> >>>>>> To be sure, all this is familiar ground to historians, but serious >>>>>> scholarship about these episodes is almost never knitted together, >>>>>> understood or presented with as much panache and storytelling flair as >>>>>> Gods, Guns and Missionaries. Via email, Pillai told me that “history in >>>>>> our country--and perhaps elsewhere too--is not merely a rational, >>>>>> academic inquiry into the past. It is an emotional, political affair. My >>>>>> very first book invited a Rs 5 crore defamation notice, so I know the >>>>>> risks and perils involved in presenting complexities from the past. In >>>>>> this context, historicising religious identities can provoke all kinds >>>>>> of responses. "The truth" pales here in comparison with how people >>>>>> interpret history to create "their truth" in the present or as groups; >>>>>> to find meaning by reading history a certain way. This is true of all >>>>>> communities and identities everywhere in the world. But today we are >>>>>> also seeing an active cultivation of animosity by exacerbating elements >>>>>> of divergence in these narratives. So, when writing a book on modern >>>>>> religious identity formation, yes there is a fear that some of its >>>>>> contents can be hijacked. Similarly, one can also be "cancelled" by >>>>>> different sides for not reinforcing their respective ideological >>>>>> positions. One chapter in the book might annoy the Left and please the >>>>>> Right. Another might achieve the reverse. But this is the risk of doing >>>>>> what I do today. One can't do history if worried about reactions. Even >>>>>> when one is aware of the risks involved in these reactions.” >>>>>> >>>>>> As the topic is especially relevant in this Exposition year, I asked >>>>>> Pillai what to make of the paradox of “Saint” Francis Xavier – an >>>>>> unstinting zealot who believed in the superiority of his faith – >>>>>> becoming converted after death into an all-inclusive Indian holy man, >>>>>> who is addressed by pilgrims from every religion to answer their >>>>>> prayers. He responded thoughtfully: "We must always view historical >>>>>> figures in their time and context. Xavier and his proselytising work >>>>>> stemmed from a vision of the world that emerged from his cultural >>>>>> background, the history of his part of the world, his education etc. The >>>>>> responses of his brown interlocutors were also similarly influenced. >>>>>> There is also in this equation the political power of the Portuguese and >>>>>> their own imperial goals, which skewed the field in favour of one side >>>>>> over another. We should be able to speak of this transparently while >>>>>> also recognising that historical dynamics also evolve and change. The >>>>>> same Portuguese state's attitudes shifted over time; the memory of >>>>>> Xavier and his work also changed. These too are real historical >>>>>> processes. History is full of contradictions. In the battle between >>>>>> "sides" today we can lose sight of this. There are no heroes and >>>>>> villains in history. Often the same characters in different contexts can >>>>>> look heroic or villainous, depending on the prism, the location of the >>>>>> viewer, and so on.” >>>>>> >>>>>> Pillai acknowledges that it is difficult to have honest and open >>>>>> discussions about historical-religious-political issues in India at the >>>>>> moment, but they must occur nonetheless: “I think conversations help. >>>>>> Remember that outside of certain political constituencies, most human >>>>>> beings can take a sensible view of things. It is this mature, reasonable >>>>>> tendency that must be cultivated. By reacting to others, and their >>>>>> setting of the terms, we play into their game. Instead, we must engage >>>>>> in dialogue, speak of Xavier the complex, sometimes "negative" figure >>>>>> while also recognising the equally historical phenomenon of Xavier as he >>>>>> came to be recognised and reinterpreted in these same communities, not >>>>>> just by Catholics but also Hindus. I always say that most things in >>>>>> history are not a case of "either/or". The word we must embrace is >>>>>> "and". But this is admittedly easier said than done. I don't know if I >>>>>> have a solution other than dialogue, and engagement in good faith.” >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAN1wPW65jLiSwu-Zp-NFhDSLJ40Lp4Ua_5KH2urrQdBm2Lhxng%40mail.gmail.com. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/trinity-9fad9968-f92c-46e7-9502-353eb886cd1c-1732968621731%403c-app-mailcom-bs07. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> . >>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAGVMO%2BuFpNRSjQWMa4W-gmJF-jQOMpktjt2Jx7rrZdMzV5--bw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Fim da mensagem de Crispino Lobo <[email protected]> ----- >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>> >>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20241202095922.Horde.2PK63Txk5COycKX4L8q2U22%40mail.sapo.pt. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Goa-Research-Net" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/3294c2ff-fc17-4490-9a3a-0b160182eb44n%40googlegroups.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Goa-Research-Net" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CA%2Bx1-5QbaZcdO9ZWmQ_AY4y3WJkcLqTaYoXktOmpNaX_gthS3Q%40mail.gmail.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/BE6BDFB2-45FC-49D8-ABC7-D9B9713387A8%40gmail.com.
