Good morning Roland, a biryani is not a biryani without the main ingredient, what's a biryani without beef, mutton etc. even if all other ingredients are there. Ha, ha. Good one Roland 😀
On Wed, 4 Dec, 2024, 4:02 am Roland Francis, <[email protected]> wrote: > Actually, you’ve made my point which was: > Biryani is not Biryani without beef, mutton or chicken in it. > > Roland. > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2024 at 5:54 AM fredericknoronha < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> You're assuming there's something taboo with "beef, mutton or chicken". >> Not everyone might see it that way. And, over centuries, perspective could >> change too. FN >> >> On Tuesday, 3 December 2024 at 16:23:28 UTC+5:30 Roland Francis wrote: >> >>> To ignore the religious element in Portuguese colonialism in favour of >>> hunger and greed would be to praise Biryani for its long grained rice and >>> fragrant spices while ignoring the beef, mutton or chicken in it. >>> >>> Roland Francis >>> 416-453-3371 <(416)%20453-3371> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 3:12 PM <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> The Portuguese intolerance in Goa until 1961 and in Mozambique until >>>> 1974 had nothing to do with religion. It was hunger and greed in Portugal >>>> that led many people to colonize and commit crimes in the colonies. The >>>> slave trade is an example of this. They were not enslaved in the name of >>>> religion. These arguments aim to whitewash Portuguese colonial history. >>>> Missionary schools opened the eyes of colonized peoples in Africa. >>>> >>>> Alberto >>>> >>>> Sat, 30 Nov, 2024, 5:52 pm 'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via >>>> Goa-Research-Net, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Unfortunate as it may be, the fact is that religion has more often been >>>>> a tool for violence and intolerance, than a tool for peace, love of one >>>>> another and tolerance. Much of what we Portuguese did wrong in our >>>>> colonial >>>>> past was due to our fierce attachment to a particular religion. Just like >>>>> much of what is being done wrong today in India has to do with a fanatical >>>>> approach to religion by far too many people from all religious >>>>> backgrounds. >>>>> >>>>> The Portuguese of the 21st century are not psychologically very >>>>> different from the 16th century Portuguese. The difference is that we were >>>>> then fiercely religious and care today very little about religion. As a >>>>> result we find no difficulty in fully embracing in our community Hindus >>>>> from India and Nepal, Muslims from Pakistan, Guinea-Bissau and Mozambique, >>>>> Shiites from the Ismaelite community, Orthodox Christians from Romania, >>>>> the >>>>> Ukraine and Russia. Most of us demand only two things to accept people as >>>>> co-citizens: that they truly want to be part of our community and that >>>>> they >>>>> speak Portuguese. We are in no way superior to the people of India, and I >>>>> have no doubt India would be as peaceful and tolerant a nation as we now >>>>> are, once you stop being intolerant about people's religious beliefs. One >>>>> may believe in God, but maybe one should stop thinking that God has any >>>>> preference for any religion. It's what we do which matters, not what we >>>>> believe in. Simple, but clearly so difficult to achieve, in Europe as well >>>>> as in Asia... >>>>> >>>>> Nuno Cardoso da Silva >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2024 at 6:23 AM >>>>> *From:* "V M" <[email protected]> >>>>> *To:* "V M" <[email protected]> >>>>> *Subject:* [GRN] Manu Pillai: "There are No Heroes or Villains in >>>>> History" (O Heraldo, 30/11/2024) >>>>> >>>>> https://www.heraldgoa.in/cafe/manu-pillai-there-are-no-heroes-or-villains-in-history/416418 >>>>> >>>>> Religion and politics are an especially volatile mix in South Asia, >>>>> cleaved apart so painfully on the basis of religion in 1947, and roiled on >>>>> the same lines again in the 21st century, as majoritarianism surges on all >>>>> sides of the post-Partition borders. Here in India, the main divide >>>>> remains >>>>> Hindu-Muslim, with painful consequences – from casual intimidation to >>>>> ethnic cleansing – playing out in different locations However, in recent >>>>> years, Sikhs and Sikhism have also been targeted as “anti-national”, and >>>>> Goa has experienced many silly and childish provocations about Catholics >>>>> and Catholicism, including recurring absurdities about who can and can’t >>>>> be >>>>> considered Goencho Saib. >>>>> >>>>> These slurs haven’t yet added up to much, and it would be unwise to >>>>> overreact. However, the increasing conflation of myth and history by the >>>>> state is an unhealthy trend. As the distinguished political scientist >>>>> Niraja Gopal Jayal reminds us: “In effect, it is an attempt to construe >>>>> Indian citizenship as faith-based, in consonance with the idea of a Hindu >>>>> majoritarian nation, of which Hindus are natural citizens while Muslims, >>>>> in >>>>> this view, properly belong to Pakistan or Bangladesh. Perfecting this >>>>> congruence is the object of the new project of citizenship.” >>>>> >>>>> Catholics in Goa – and Christians in India – have not been primary >>>>> targets in this scenario, and in fact Joseph Francis Pereira – a Pakistani >>>>> of Goan origin – was one of the first beneficiaries of the new Citizenship >>>>> Amendment Act, which allows Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Parsis, Christians and >>>>> Buddhists (but not Muslims) from the neighboring countries to become >>>>> Indian >>>>> citizens if they entered before 2014. >>>>> >>>>> Yet, there are warning signs, as the senior academic Peter Ronald de >>>>> Souza shared in a recent column in *Indian Express*: “A few days ago, >>>>> during an argument (in a WhatsApp group), I was told to "go back to >>>>> Portugal". Not one to take such abuse without a fight, I responded and >>>>> asked my adversary to “go back to Afghanistan”. He was outraged. "I’m not >>>>> from Afghanistan," he roared. "Well, I’m not from Portugal," I said. Two >>>>> things come together in this brief exchange that are worth thinking about. >>>>> My name and his outrage. For him I was obviously the outsider and, equally >>>>> obviously, he was the insider. Both for him were self-evidently true. In >>>>> this exchange, my argumentativeness faced his righteous anger. He said he >>>>> was confronting me because I was evil. That we went to school together >>>>> more >>>>> than half a century ago did not matter.” >>>>> >>>>> Palpably upset, de Souza writes “I must honestly admit I was surprised >>>>> at the vitriol. What began as a discussion on an Indian festival, soon >>>>> descended into a toxic spat watched by others who, in their silence, >>>>> appeared to endorse his views that it was inadmissible for me to talk >>>>> about >>>>> things Indian, especially Indian culture. What did I know? And who was I >>>>> anyway? An Indian on probation! Now I know what Draupadi must have felt in >>>>> the assembly when she asked the custodians of dharma her question. They >>>>> did >>>>> not answer. They remained silent.” >>>>> >>>>> “Who belongs? Who does not belong? What kind of state is being >>>>> re-engineered by Hindu nationalism, and where did the historical impetus >>>>> come from?” Precisely when it is needed most to help address these >>>>> questions, Manu Pillai’s lucid, brilliant new *Gods, Guns and >>>>> Missionaries: The Making of the Modern Hindu Identity* is an >>>>> invaluable primer on India’s encounter with Western colonialism, and “the >>>>> context in which Hindu nationalism – Hindutva, so dominant now in India – >>>>> found its *raison d'être*. [It is] a survey of 400 years at most – a >>>>> span that supplies the historical setting and much of the emotional >>>>> stimulus empowering present-day Hinduism.” >>>>> >>>>> All serious students of Goan history are strongly urged to read Gods, >>>>> Guns and Missionaries for the way it begins alone, a deft and masterly >>>>> treatment of colonialism and conversion in the Estado da Índia. This brave >>>>> young author – he was born in 1990 – pulls no punches, but also refrains >>>>> from cheap shots. This clear-eyed, sure-footed approach is both refreshing >>>>> and absolutely required, because the subject is such a potent mix of >>>>> history, religion and politics. Here is just one passage, for flavour: >>>>> “the >>>>> Portuguese came into everyday contact with Hindus, armed with scarce >>>>> knowledge but copious pre-judgement. The encounter took barely a >>>>> generation >>>>> to turn violent. One factor was that the colonizer’s rigid religiosity had >>>>> grown stiffer still in reaction to the anti-Catholic Reformation occurring >>>>> in Europe. That is, with the emerging Protestant movement accusing the >>>>> Catholic church of perverting the faith, Catholic powers had a special >>>>> necessity to demonstrate unequivocal Christian credentials. And here, >>>>> their >>>>> newly acquired Indian enclaves offered a parade ground, packed as they >>>>> were >>>>> with devil-worshipping pagans.” >>>>> >>>>> To be sure, all this is familiar ground to historians, but serious >>>>> scholarship about these episodes is almost never knitted together, >>>>> understood or presented with as much panache and storytelling flair as >>>>> *Gods, >>>>> Guns and Missionaries*. Via email, Pillai told me that “history in >>>>> our country--and perhaps elsewhere too--is not merely a rational, academic >>>>> inquiry into the past. It is an emotional, political affair. My very first >>>>> book invited a Rs 5 crore defamation notice, so I know the risks and >>>>> perils >>>>> involved in presenting complexities from the past. In this context, >>>>> historicising religious identities can provoke all kinds of responses. >>>>> "The >>>>> truth" pales here in comparison with how people interpret history to >>>>> create >>>>> "their truth" in the present or as groups; to find meaning by reading >>>>> history a certain way. This is true of all communities and identities >>>>> everywhere in the world. But today we are also seeing an active >>>>> cultivation >>>>> of animosity by exacerbating elements of divergence in these narratives. >>>>> So, when writing a book on modern religious identity formation, yes there >>>>> is a fear that some of its contents can be hijacked. Similarly, one can >>>>> also be "cancelled" by different sides for not reinforcing their >>>>> respective >>>>> ideological positions. One chapter in the book might annoy the Left and >>>>> please the Right. Another might achieve the reverse. But this is the risk >>>>> of doing what I do today. One can't do history if worried about reactions. >>>>> Even when one is aware of the risks involved in these reactions.” >>>>> >>>>> As the topic is especially relevant in this Exposition year, I asked >>>>> Pillai what to make of the paradox of “Saint” Francis Xavier – an >>>>> unstinting zealot who believed in the superiority of his faith – becoming >>>>> converted after death into an all-inclusive Indian holy man, who is >>>>> addressed by pilgrims from every religion to answer their prayers. He >>>>> responded thoughtfully: "We must always view historical figures in their >>>>> time and context. Xavier and his proselytising work stemmed from a vision >>>>> of the world that emerged from his cultural background, the history of his >>>>> part of the world, his education etc. The responses of his brown >>>>> interlocutors were also similarly influenced. There is also in this >>>>> equation the political power of the Portuguese and their own imperial >>>>> goals, which skewed the field in favour of one side over another. We >>>>> should >>>>> be able to speak of this transparently while also recognising that >>>>> historical dynamics also evolve and change. The same Portuguese state's >>>>> attitudes shifted over time; the memory of Xavier and his work also >>>>> changed. These too are real historical processes. History is full of >>>>> contradictions. In the battle between "sides" today we can lose sight of >>>>> this. There are no heroes and villains in history. Often the same >>>>> characters in different contexts can look heroic or villainous, depending >>>>> on the prism, the location of the viewer, and so on.” >>>>> >>>>> Pillai acknowledges that it is difficult to have honest and open >>>>> discussions about historical-religious-political issues in India at the >>>>> moment, but they must occur nonetheless: “I think conversations help. >>>>> Remember that outside of certain political constituencies, most human >>>>> beings can take a sensible view of things. It is this mature, reasonable >>>>> tendency that must be cultivated. By reacting to others, and their setting >>>>> of the terms, we play into their game. Instead, we must engage in >>>>> dialogue, >>>>> speak of Xavier the complex, sometimes "negative" figure while also >>>>> recognising the equally historical phenomenon of Xavier as he came to be >>>>> recognised and reinterpreted in these same communities, not just by >>>>> Catholics but also Hindus. I always say that most things in history are >>>>> not >>>>> a case of "either/or". The word we must embrace is "and". But this is >>>>> admittedly easier said than done. I don't know if I have a solution other >>>>> than dialogue, and engagement in good faith.” >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAN1wPW65jLiSwu-Zp-NFhDSLJ40Lp4Ua_5KH2urrQdBm2Lhxng%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAN1wPW65jLiSwu-Zp-NFhDSLJ40Lp4Ua_5KH2urrQdBm2Lhxng%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/trinity-9fad9968-f92c-46e7-9502-353eb886cd1c-1732968621731%403c-app-mailcom-bs07 >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/trinity-9fad9968-f92c-46e7-9502-353eb886cd1c-1732968621731%403c-app-mailcom-bs07?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to >>>> [email protected] >>>> . >>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>> >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAGVMO%2BuFpNRSjQWMa4W-gmJF-jQOMpktjt2Jx7rrZdMzV5--bw%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAGVMO%2BuFpNRSjQWMa4W-gmJF-jQOMpktjt2Jx7rrZdMzV5--bw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Fim da mensagem de Crispino Lobo <[email protected]> ----- >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> >>> To view this discussion, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20241202095922.Horde.2PK63Txk5COycKX4L8q2U22%40mail.sapo.pt >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20241202095922.Horde.2PK63Txk5COycKX4L8q2U22%40mail.sapo.pt?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Goa-Research-Net" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/3294c2ff-fc17-4490-9a3a-0b160182eb44n%40googlegroups.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/3294c2ff-fc17-4490-9a3a-0b160182eb44n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Goa-Research-Net" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CA%2Bx1-5QbaZcdO9ZWmQ_AY4y3WJkcLqTaYoXktOmpNaX_gthS3Q%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CA%2Bx1-5QbaZcdO9ZWmQ_AY4y3WJkcLqTaYoXktOmpNaX_gthS3Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. 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