Is anyone using Google translator? On Wed, 9 Jul, 2025, 8:58 am alan machado, <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'd like to add that some words get lost in translation > "kindness" is given as the word for gentilidade, the term used for > activities covering gentile practices > "penas" is penance not feathers as google translate suggests > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2025 at 8:54 AM alan machado <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> I would have liked to contribute more on this subject but am too tied up >> just now to devote the time it requires. >> >> Attached is a paper by Bruno Feitler. It was written with a degree of >> collaboration with me. >> We also worked together on compiling a database of 8250 individuals >> prosecuted by Goa's Inquisition. It is freely available and can be analysed >> for various enlightening data by anyone familiar with excel. >> >> For instance, you will find material on orphans, a subject discussed >> earlier. >> >> Alan >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 8, 2025 at 11:12 PM fredericknoronha < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Dr Leopoldo da Rocha's work on the *confrarias* is here: >>> >>> https://www.scribd.com/document/116619605/Leopoldo-Da-Rocha-as-Confrarias-de-Goa-Seculos-Xvi-Xx >>> >>> Pe. Gabriel Saldanha's* Historia de Goa* may be quite forgotten in Goa >>> itself, but is available online here: >>> https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.32055 >>> https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.32056 >>> >>> Note: It can sometimes be tough to access the Internet Achieve from Goa >>> or other parts of India. >>> FN >>> >>> On Tuesday, 8 July 2025 at 23:01:11 UTC+5:30 Sonia Gomes wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry: Nothing more to say. Both Pe. Gabriel Saldanha as well as Dr. >>>> Leopoldo da Rocha wrote in Portuguese. As far as I know, there are no >>>> translations in English. >>>> So who has done this insightful analyses of both their books? Thank you >>>> very much. I appreciate your thoughts but I have no desire to get into any >>>> arguments with you Frederico. Thank you very much. >>>> Sonia do Rosario Gomes >>>> >>>> On Tue, 8 Jul, 2025, 10:18 pm Sonia Gomes, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Nothing to say >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 8 Jul, 2025, 9:27 pm Tino de Sa, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>> FN - a first class summary of the critical points to bear in mind while >>>>>> making a historical assessment of the Inquisition. >>>>>> Ignorance about what the Inquisition meant, and the legal framework >>>>>> under which it operated is colossal, even among Catholics. >>>>>> The current trend to see the Inquisition as an instrument of >>>>>> 'conversion' is laughable. In fact, the reverse is probably true: since >>>>>> the >>>>>> Inquisition extended only to those who had been baptised, and not to >>>>>> non-Christians (except in very special cases, where a non-Christian was >>>>>> found to be actively engaged in opposing it), the Inquisition probably >>>>>> *dissuaded >>>>>> *many from accepting baptism, lest they come under its mandate! So >>>>>> while it brought about severe travails for Christians, both 'old' and >>>>>> 'new', it certainly had nothing to do with furthering conversions of >>>>>> non-Christians to Christianity! >>>>>> Tino de Sa >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 8, 2025 at 8:28 PM fredericknoronha < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Not all repression in Portuguese Goa was the Inquisition (and not >>>>>>> all of the Portuguese rule was repression alone). Actually, the Goa >>>>>>> Inquisition was a formal institution of the Catholic Church, focussed >>>>>>> primarily on religious orthodoxy, targetting mainly "New Christians" >>>>>>> (converted Jews and Muslims suspected of continuing their own faith) and >>>>>>> converts who were accused of relapsing in their beliefs. Hindus living >>>>>>> under Portuguese rule were not subject to the Inquisition. It tried (i) >>>>>>> Converts for "relapsing" to their old practices (ii) "Crypto" Jews and >>>>>>> Muslims (iii) Europeans or missionaries suspected of "heretical >>>>>>> beliefs". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Confiscation of native lands was a colonial strategy, not an >>>>>>> Inquisition doctrine. This was common among colonial regimes worldwide, >>>>>>> including Mughal and British Indian. We see new forms of it at play in >>>>>>> our >>>>>>> times too. Likewise, regulation of dress and festivals was more about >>>>>>> control, not just religion. This continued after the Inquisition was >>>>>>> abolished, and was not unique to it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The so-called *Orfãos do Estado* ("State Orphans") was a broader >>>>>>> colonial policy, part of the Iberian colonial idea of "civilising" >>>>>>> non-Christians. The aim was to assimilate them into >>>>>>> Portuguese-Christian >>>>>>> society, while ignoring the wishes of surviving kin. Of course, this is >>>>>>> deeply problematic, but it is distinct from the Inquisition's judicial >>>>>>> role >>>>>>> of trying cases of what it saw as heresy and apostasy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pe. Gabriel Saldanha and Dr Leopoldo da Rocha have left us valuable >>>>>>> writing; but they need to be read in context. Saldanha was a Catholic >>>>>>> priest and historian of the late 19th and early 20th centuries; his >>>>>>> accounts need to be seen against his own biases and the framework of >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> era. Dr Rocha wrote at a time where anti-clericalism and secular >>>>>>> nationalism were on the rise in Goa, and his critiques could reflect >>>>>>> that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In a word: we should be careful not to collapse all colonial >>>>>>> oppression under the "Inquisition" umbrella. It has been convenient >>>>>>> short-hand for a lot many things for some time now. FN >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, 7 July 2025 at 15:16:32 UTC+5:30 Sonia Gomes wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am reading Pe. Gabriel Saldanha and a great many times, he >>>>>>>> mentions about fields as well as coconut groves removed from the >>>>>>>> possession >>>>>>>> of Hindus and donated to convents and churches for their upkeep. Also >>>>>>>> Dr. >>>>>>>> Leopoldo da Rocha mentions in a monograph of various strictures passed >>>>>>>> against various festivities and the personal lives of the Hindus. Even >>>>>>>> clothes. Now considering the disruption of lives, the loss of property, >>>>>>>> bought by so many Catholics at throw away prices, would this be a part >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the Inquisition? And the kidnapping of orfãos from the Hindu families >>>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>> handed over to the Pai dos Cristãos for conversion to Catholics even if >>>>>>>> there were Hindu families willing to bring them up as Hindus. Which >>>>>>>> part of >>>>>>>> Inquisition is this? Or does the Inquisition only deal with torture and >>>>>>>> Autos de fé? Dr. Pacheco de Figueiredo would like your opinion. Thank >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> and much appreciated. >>>>>>>> Sonia do Rosario Gomes >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul, 2025, 12:52 am Tino de Sa, <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This clarifies things, John. And seems to be a fair and accurate >>>>>>>>> historical assessment. >>>>>>>>> Tino >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 11:25 PM John de Figueiredo < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I was not referring to FN’s comment, I was referring to the >>>>>>>>>> announcement of the lecture “The Jews of Goa under the Portuguese” by >>>>>>>>>> Professor Shalya Weil. It says that “many Jews” were tried but Alan’s >>>>>>>>>> research shows that only 15 were tried. The focus of the Inquisitors >>>>>>>>>> was on >>>>>>>>>> Christians, not on Jews or on Hindus. >>>>>>>>>> Death by fire was not unusual those days. Before the >>>>>>>>>> establishment of the Inquisition in Goa, several homosexuals were >>>>>>>>>> killed by >>>>>>>>>> fire, and both Goan Christians and Hindus approved their killings. >>>>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>> was also the practice of “sati” (“suttee”). Thus being said, to >>>>>>>>>> disinter >>>>>>>>>> the remains of a person and burn them and to burn women who were old >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> poor are horrific displays of religious intolerance and most >>>>>>>>>> certainly >>>>>>>>>> contrary to the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth under whose name those >>>>>>>>>> practices were conducted.. Pyrard de Laval was probably right when he >>>>>>>>>> stated that the practices of the Inquisition were excessive even for >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> standards of the time. What Alan’s research shows is that those >>>>>>>>>> practices >>>>>>>>>> in Goa were milder than in Portugal. >>>>>>>>>> John M. de Figueiredo >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2025, at 8:35 AM, Tino de Sa <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But John, that is exactly what FN said. The 'Jews' who were >>>>>>>>>> targeted by the Inquisition were not because they were ethnic Jews, >>>>>>>>>> or Jews >>>>>>>>>> who professed and practised the Jewish faith (these were >>>>>>>>>> discriminated >>>>>>>>>> against, but not subject to the Inquisition), but Jews who had >>>>>>>>>> converted to >>>>>>>>>> Christianity, but were suspected of - as Christians - practising >>>>>>>>>> rituals of >>>>>>>>>> their former religion in secret. >>>>>>>>>> Tino de Sa >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 4:39 AM John de Figueiredo < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This description of the activities of the Inquisition in Goa is >>>>>>>>>>> misleading. Alan Machado (Prabhu) demonstrated on the basis of >>>>>>>>>>> original >>>>>>>>>>> documents that the primary targets of the Inquisition of Goa were >>>>>>>>>>> not Jews, >>>>>>>>>>> Hindus, and other Non-Christians unless they interfered with the >>>>>>>>>>> workings >>>>>>>>>>> of the Inquisition. The primary targets were Christians. As I noted >>>>>>>>>>> in my >>>>>>>>>>> articles on the practice of Ayurvedic Medicine in Goa, when Gabriel >>>>>>>>>>> Dellon >>>>>>>>>>> was in jail and pretended to be sick, the Inquisitors brought a >>>>>>>>>>> Hindu >>>>>>>>>>> physician to treat him. Machado (Prabhu) also demonstrated that the >>>>>>>>>>> Inquisition in Goa was relatively mild compared to the ones in >>>>>>>>>>> Portugal. >>>>>>>>>>> The clear proof of this is the independent testimony of foreign >>>>>>>>>>> travelers >>>>>>>>>>> in the 16th and 17th centuries that there were several synagogues >>>>>>>>>>> in Goa >>>>>>>>>>> and Jews and Hindus were practicing their religion freely in Goa. >>>>>>>>>>> There was >>>>>>>>>>> even a Rua dos Judeus (Road of the Jews) in Old Goa (Velha Goa) >>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>> suggests that Jews were settled in Goa. Yet, as Machado (Prabhu) >>>>>>>>>>> noted, the >>>>>>>>>>> same fictions about the Inquisition of Goa get repeated over and >>>>>>>>>>> over. >>>>>>>>>>> John M. de Figueiredo >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 5, 2025, at 9:29 AM, Tino de Sa <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What a terrible pity that the lecture is not available on >>>>>>>>>>> youtube! Or is it? >>>>>>>>>>> Tino de Sa >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 5, 2025 at 5:27 PM William Robert Da Silva < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Your explanation is too meagre in historical explanation. The >>>>>>>>>>>> Jews and early Christians were in West-Coast India very early for >>>>>>>>>>>> trade, >>>>>>>>>>>> continuing before and after the fall of Rome. Cosmas >>>>>>>>>>>> Indicopleustes etc. >>>>>>>>>>>> are examples of this and we need to explore more in these areas. >>>>>>>>>>>> What is >>>>>>>>>>>> done is Goa, Portugal is too meagre to bring out history. >>>>>>>>>>>> William Robert Da Silva >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2025 at 12:07 AM fredericknoronha < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Shalva Weil >>>>>>>>>>>>> *The Jews of Goa under the Portuguese* >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thursday 3.07.2025 >>>>>>>>>>>>> How to watch >>>>>>>>>>>>> This lecture starts on 3 July at 5:00pm (UK). >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.lockdownuniversity.org/email_verifications/new> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.lockdownuniversity.org/about/subscribe> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Please note this session will only be available to watch >>>>>>>>>>>>> live.* >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> There may have been early settlement of Jews in Goa, but there >>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly was a Jewish colony there under the Portuguese. >>>>>>>>>>>>> However, the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Portuguese set up an Inquisition in Goa and tried many Jews and >>>>>>>>>>>>> conversos >>>>>>>>>>>>> or New Christians. They kept alive Garcia de Orta (1501-68), the >>>>>>>>>>>>> physician >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the king and a famous botanist, but burned his sister on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> stake. By >>>>>>>>>>>>> the 18th century the community of Jews had disappeared but their >>>>>>>>>>>>> memory >>>>>>>>>>>>> lingered on in some families to this day. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.lockdownuniversity.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> lectures/2560-the-jews-of-goa-under-the-portuguese >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/01568723-9a2f-4dcb-b6c1-9e811bfa52f0n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/01568723-9a2f-4dcb-b6c1-9e811bfa52f0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CA%2BvNr4%2BdyVUhzKkfbo5WQLNKe%3DZ_N6fm89iBKMkJwTzzDCQu6Q%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CA%2BvNr4%2BdyVUhzKkfbo5WQLNKe%3DZ_N6fm89iBKMkJwTzzDCQu6Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> *Dr. Anthony de Sa, IAS (Retd), PhD**, FRICS, MPA (Harvard)* >>>>>>>>>>> *Former Chief Secretary of Madhya Pradesh,* >>>>>>>>>>> *Former Chairman, MP Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA)* >>>>>>>>>>> *Mobile (WhatsApp): +91-9810981818 <+91%2098109%2081818>* >>>>>>>>>>> *e-mail: [email protected]* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * [email protected]* >>>>>>>>>>> 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https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20433D3C-5FBF-43A2-95BB-6340A2ABD0BC%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20433D3C-5FBF-43A2-95BB-6340A2ABD0BC%40sbcglobal.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> *Dr. Anthony de Sa, IAS (Retd), PhD**, FRICS, MPA (Harvard)* >>>>>>>>>> *Former Chief Secretary of Madhya Pradesh,* >>>>>>>>>> *Former Chairman, MP Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA)* >>>>>>>>>> *Mobile (WhatsApp): +91-9810981818 <+91%2098109%2081818>* >>>>>>>>>> *e-mail: [email protected]* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * [email protected]* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>>>>>> 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