########################################################################## # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##########################################################################
I have been informed that Tony Correia-Afonso is a respected elder member of the Goan community in Goa. Therefore I would request him to set an example and stick to the issues, respond specifically to the facts and arguments presented by others, and refrain from name-calling, which is a sure sign of annoyance, impatience or desperation in any debate. In my previous posting I said he had been selective in his use of the historical record, and presented a detailed analysis of why I thought so. Instead of addressing my points with specific rebuttals he responded by calling me a hypocrite and continued his selective use of the historical record as I have outlined below. Is that any way to debate? He levies a new claim that, "....the so-called Israelis are in fact European Jews..." Can this be an accurate statement when anyone familiar with the Bible would know that native Jews had been residents of Palestine for thousands of years, and were later joined by European Jews who had survived the Holocaust. I'm sure Mr. Correia-Afonso remembers the Holocaust because of his great concern for the value of human life. This diversion from the initial debate is like arguing about how and when Hindus and Muslims occupied the Indian subcontinent and why it was necessary to partition what was then British India. It became a moot issue in 1947. After the horrendous initial chaos, everyone in India moved on, except for the thorny side issue of Kashmir, the Palestinians did not. Let me see if I can focus the attention of Mr. Correia-Afonso and his so-called supporters, who also ignored any specifics that I had laid out, and give them another opportunity to show me what I have missed, so that we all can learn something. Can anyone deny that it was the British that partitioned both India and Palestine, with UN approval, in 1947? Can anyone deny that this made prior history moot for all practical purposes? Can anyone deny the point that I tried to make, which is that Indians and Pakistanis, regardless of what they felt about it, accepted their partition and moved on with their lives, whereas the Palestinians and other Arabs never did, most of them to this day? Can anyone deny that Israel was attacked by five Arab neighbors in 1948 with the aim of "pushing the Jews into the sea"? Can anyone deny that the Palestininian Charter, to this day, has never been changed to reflect the acceptance of Israel to live in peace and security, that Arafat supposedly engineered? Can anyone deny that Arafat walked away from an interim agreement suggested by President Clinton in 2000 and accepted by Ehud Barak, with further negotiations to follow on remaining issues? Can anyone deny that powerful Palestinian militants, who never accepted Arafat's leadership, like Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Brigades JUST LAST WEEK threatened to kill the PLO leadership just because Mr. Abbas asked for a cessation of hostilities? It is this sequential list of facts and the official maps that show no Israel anywhere that have led me to the conclusion that the Palestinians do not want to live with Israel in a 2 state configuration, but want to replace Israel. My conclusion was confirmed JUST LAST WEEK by the leaders of all the militant Palestinian organizations that control and dictate events on their side. Mr. Correia-Afonso seems to defend the brutal actions of the Palestinian militants when he says, "Can they be expected to meekly accept such blatant injustice?" The answer according to Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson Mandela is "Yes!", while conducting peaceful negotiations not suicide bombings of innocent civilians. The militant suggestion by Mr. Correia-Afonso that the violence by Palestinian militants is justified by their perception that they have been wronged is not worthy of anyone who says he values life. Whose life exactly? Has Mr Correia-Afonso considered asking Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Bridages to cease hostilities and conduct negotiations with Israel, and not threaten Mr. Abbas with death when he makes such a suggestion? I would like to assure Mr. Correia-Afonso that I, too, believe that every life is precious. However, I do not believe that the Israelis should commit collective suicide by not defending themselves from those who have vowed to exterminate them. If he really believes that life is precious, he would pay closer attention to the previous plight of the European Jews under the Nazi onslaught and realize that the world community agreed to a homeland for oppressed Jews when they formed Israel in 1947. He should also look up who accepted and who rejected the UN-approved partition, who started the violence back in 1948, and who still refuses to accept Israel's right to exist. Mr, Correia-Afonso sloughs over these issues. He also tries to divert attention from Arafat's financial chicanery where millions of dollars of funds meant for the Palestinians in the camps were stolen for personal use. Suha Arafat has negotiated a lucrative payment of US$22 million a year for herself just to disclose where the remaining funds have been hidden. This exhorbitant bribe will come from funds that are meant for people in the refugee camps, some of it from American donations. Mr. Correia-Afonso seems pretty sanguine about such corruption, asking how this is America's business and comparing it sarcastically but illogically with no-bid contracts awarded to Halliburton. Some of the Palestinian funds are provided by America for use in the camps, and charges against Halliburton have been and are being openly investigated, and some wrong doing has already been punished. Suha Arafat's punishment is to be restricted to only US$22 million a year, the fruits of crime. I am curious about Mr. Correia-Afonso's opinion about why Arafat, who he describes as a champion of freedom for his people, rejected the interim peace agreement of 2000 at the last moment, after being involved in negotiating its terms. Finally, if Mr. Correia-Afonso is really concerned about how the Halliburton contracts had anything to do with US Vice-President Dick Cheney he should go to www.factcheck.org and look up what independant investigators have found. Let truth prevail, indeed, not emotional opinions that ignore detailed questions I have raised. Please provide specific rebuttals, and, please, no more name-calling. --- Tony Correia Afonso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ########################################################################## > # If Goanet stops reaching you, contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] # > # Want to check the archives? > http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/ # > # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to > reflect respect to others # > ########################################################################## > > In his response to my posting on the subject, Mario > Gouveia > accuses me of being selective when making > comparisons between Arafat > and other celebrities accused of being terrorists. > In point of fact, it > is those who accuse Arafat and other leaders like > him who are fighting > for their peoples' rights of being terrorists, > whilst being themselves > guilty of the worst terorist crimes, who are being > selective as well as > being hypocrites. > > Please understand that the so-called Israelis are > in fact European > Jews who have forcibly occupied vast tracts of > Palestinian Arab lands, > illegally constructed settlements therein and driven > out those who have > been living there for a couple of thousand years > into squalid refugee > camps where they live under sub-human conditions. > Can they be expected > to meekly accept such blatant injustice? > > As I have stated in my post, every human life is > precious and > any unnecessary loss of such a life is to be > decried. Mario rightly sheds > tears for the lives of Israeli civilians killed by > Palestinian suicide > bombers. I hope he spares a thought for the > thousands of Palestinian > civilians killed by Israeli air attacks and tank > fire in civilian areas. > Comparisons are odious, as they say, but whatever > attrocities the Palestinians > Arabs may be accused of perpetrating on the Israelis > pale into insignificance > when compared with the systematic persecution of the > Jewish race by > European Christians over two thousand years, > culminating in the Holocaust. > Is it right for Palestinian Arabs to be paying for > the crimes of European > Christians? > > Thank you Radhakrishnan and Cornel for > supporting my stand. > I agree with Cornel that Arafat may have been > corrupt, but who are the > Americans to judge him? If awarding a pension to his > wife (now his widow) > is to be considered as corruption, how does one > describe the award of > "no-bid" contracts in Iraq worth millions of dollars > to a firm (Halliburton) of > which the Vice-President of the U.S. was the C.E.O? > A case of spreading > freedom and democracy, perhaps? > > Let truth prevail! > > ---Tony Correia-Afonso. > >