I agree it isn't really a satisfactory solution. Part of the problem is that Google's database is all written which does give a bias. Part of the answer may well be to allow the user to make metadstatements in the text to be translated. These will be invisible to the user. It will (probably) how MOLTO will work for EU translations.
-Ian Parker On Oct 4, 6:46 pm, poacheR wrote: > Thanks for your reply, Ian. > Apologies my first post is so long; it was in the interest of > completeness, but I now see that by doing so I've unavoidably > sacrificed from its readability. > > In any case, I addressed the 'thou' option in it (early on, in fact), > and also explained why it is inadequate as a solution. > > I can only hope a google employee finds this who will not be put off > by the length of my first post, as I think this is an important bug. > > - Tasos Papastylianou > > On Oct 3, 10:49 am, Ian Parker wrote: > > > > > Use the archaic "thou". > > > - Ian Parker > > > On Oct 2, 10:51 am, poacheR wrote: > > > > I've come across this problem in many languages I've tried > > > translating. Translating from english results in a random choice > > > between familiar or polite forms of 'you', and singular or plural. A > > > quick google search shows many others have addressed this issue too, > > > and the only (unofficial) solution proposed was to use the archaic > > > 'thou' (and know proper conjugations for the verbs in that form), > > > which frankly is a bit annoying. Furthermore, it doesn't address the > > > issue of familiarity plural, as opposed to politeness plural, which > > > *is* an issue in languages where the polite version is not the 2nd > > > person plural (such as german, where it is the 3rd person plural). > > > > Case in point: "You look lovely today" translated to german comes up > > > as "Du siehst schön heute". What if it's a complement to your boss and > > > you meant to be polite? Then you're screwed :p > > > Furthermore, adding "You look lovely today, kids", yields "Du siehst > > > schön heute, Kinder" which makes no sense grammatically. It should > > > either be "Ihr sieht", or "Sie sehen" depending on whether you're > > > talking to your kids, or you're a nanny (for instance). Yes, there's > > > an option to submit a better translation, but that's not the problem > > > here, as the first translation given could be correct, depending on > > > the context. > > > > Can we come up with a standard way of translating to the familiar > > > version and polite version when appropriate? > > > > Ideas: > > > > - The usual dictionary way of doing it by appending tags after the > > > word, e.g. '(fam.)' to familiar forms, (pol.) for polite, (sing.) for > > > singular, (pl.) for plural, or some variation of this. > > > > - Or, better yet, since this is an online service, you could make a > > > small popup come up (in the same way you've implemented a selection > > > popup when one types phonetically - works great in greek and russian > > > btw, thanks) which allows you to specify which form of 'you' you're > > > after, familiar singular, familiar plural, politeness singular, or > > > politeness plural. I can see this being a bit of a bother for copied > > > passages though; you'd have to first be able to activate the popup, > > > and then go through all the 'you' words in the text. > > > > - You could have a checkbox in english (or any other language not > > > having politeness forms) where you can specify explicitly whether you > > > are referring to familiar singular, familiar plural, politeness > > > singular, or politeness plural, in the entire passage translated > > > above. This should be acceptable since one would usually only stick to > > > one form in a reasonably short passage. > > > > - Output all 4 versions and have the user select which one it is they > > > meant (no need for permutations due to all the times 'you' is used in > > > the passage. Just stick to one form throughout, and give 4 versions of > > > the translation, 1 for each form of 'you'). While this may be > > > cumbersome / dense-looking output for larger passages, it's perfect > > > for translation of one-liners (like the example given above). > > > Alternatively, have a drop-down list you can select the right form > > > with, at output level (as opposed to input-level as in the previous > > > suggestion) > > > > - All of the above combined ;) > > > > Thanks for your consideration! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "General" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-translate-general?hl=en.
