On 25/11/14 18:42, Adam Porter wrote:
> I think it is common knowledge that the Chinese government exercises
> strict control over its portion of the Internet, and over companies
> like Baidu.

Yes, but how does that make Baidu a de facto arms of the Chinese
government? All governments exercise varying control over companies.

> But better than taking my word for it would be to consider what
> people in those areas have said, like the Taiwanese user who posted
> in this thread,

Irvin's post:

On 24/11/14 08:03, Irvin Chen wrote:
> I don't have any personal prefer over Baidu or other search engine on
> China, but Baidu do have many controversies through Chinese users.
> For ex.,Baidu operating hao123, well known #1 Firefox hijacking
> malware.
> 
> Our partnership's reputation should always be consider a important 
> issue when we setting any deal, whether it's renew or new deals. (At 
> least we cantake the advantage of the deal to asking them to do 
> something like improving malware protecting.)
> 
> Irvin

> and the Ukrainians who posted on Bugzilla.

From your own email:

> "Yandex is a Russian company, and that raises security concerns among
> users. Russia has been tightening the screws on internet for years,
> and currently has laws requiring companies operating in Russia to
> physically place their servers on Russian territory for easier access
> by security and police agencies. And Russian government is serious
> about this. This spring CEO of Vkontakte (largest Russian social
> network), Pavel Durov, was dismissed from his post for his refusal to
> hand over personal details of users to Russian security service."
> 
> "Russia is currently at war with our country. This makes Ukrainian
> users even more concerned about possibility of their data being
> accessible to Russian officials. Yandex as a company might not be as
> strongly tied to government as Mail.ru is, but they still must obey
> their laws. And they expressed their corporate position clear enough
> by removing from his post head of their Ukrainian office, Sergey
> Petrenko, for expressing his pro-Ukrainian position."

> If their concerns are not valid, then perhaps mine are not either.

I wouldn't say that at all, but I don't see them saying that Baidu is a
de facto arm of the Chinese government, or that Yandex is a de facto arm
of the Russian government.

What I do see is Irvin arguing that maybe Baidu is bad enough as a
company in its own right to consider not making a deal with it, and Tim
saying it would be a very bad idea to make a large Russian company the
default choice for Ukrainian users.

> Or perhaps mine would be reduced to a matter of principle, which
> clearly entails a variety of responses.  The questions would then
> include ones like: How will users in these locales interpret Mozilla's
> being funded by these entities?  How will Mozilla's being funded by
> them reflect on its stated mission and values?  Will Mozilla become
> dependent on their funding, and if so, could that present a future
> risk?  What if these entities were to later attempt to leverage their
> funding to change Mozilla's behavior, to change Firefox?  It has
> already been speculated in the past that Google's funding of Mozilla
> has caused Mozilla to not take certain stands which could have been
> contrary to Google's interests; and whether true or not, appearances
> do matter to some extent.  And perhaps most importantly, will being
> funded by them and collaborating with them actually result in more
> liberty for people in these places?  Will it inspire people to resist
> oppression, or to tolerate it?

There we have a potentially useful discussion, rather than this odd
linking of the bad human rights records of various countries with the
companies which operate within them.

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