Is that an abstract or a full paper? jon Quoting kuang oon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hi David, > In the HIC 2003 Sydney conference handbook pg 157 there is an > article: 'The emoticon charged docletalk interface language' which > talks about generating codes from well a "free utterance" system of > a sort. The thrust is in using textual input and explains what a > pain pick lists can be. > HTH > Kuang > On 21/07/2006, at 1:36 PM, David de Bhál wrote: > > > > > Is there any documentation of this "free utterance" idea. > > Surely language and syntax of the user is a major factor in software > > interpretation of the 'facts'. > > > > > > David de Bhál > > www.v-practice.com > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:gpcg_talk- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of kuang oon > > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 10:32 AM > > To: General Practice Computing Group Talk > > Subject: Re: [GPCG_TALK] SNOMED Project Proposal > > > > G'day, > > I agree with Ian's comments. "Free text utterance" means more > > expressivity and simultaneously the need to capture multifaceted > > clinical information. We can embede / link numerical values such as > > clinical duration, frequency and magnitudes of all sorts into > > codes . Using a text editor for input, rather than from a pick list > > - is desirable and doable. > > Free text entry can solve the problem of coding for useful clinical > > scenarios that stretch across a plurality of codes that explodes in > > a combinatorial fashion. Useful examples of such combinations are i) > > an illness - a drug treatment - patient's outcome to the drug > > treatment pattern and ii) test - test result pattern. A code for > > each conceivable scenario is paving a road to enumerated > > combinatorial hell. > > > > BTW I have been looking at Duncan's 'troponitis' - it is really 3 > > atomic concepts: 1)the serum troponin test 2)the test result and 3) > > negative criteria - in short a classic molecular concept code. One > > can just assign an arbitrary number code for "troponitis". Here > > we have the fork in the road. In an emergent coding system, such > > as DOCLE, you have to make more from less. > > Using this refactored solution, the troponitis code is constructed > > pro re nata from a palette of already available docle codes. > > > > Hence by feeding a tiny fragment of natural language oriented SHEEP > > thru its parser : > > ModelSheepService new sheepParse: > > '[sh > > problems > > troponin find: abnormal high no: acute myocardiac infarction > > sh]' > > > > gives doclescript output of: > > > > OrderedCollection ('&[EMAIL PROTECTED]@trop-onin],find[abnormal,high],no > > [myocardialInfarction]') > > > > with the canonizer gives the docle code for troponitis: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:eval,find:abno,high,no:myoci > > > > From the programming viewpoint, the docle code is amenable to 1) > > pattern searches on SQL 2)be exploded into their respective atomic > > concepts 3)visual confirmation of veracity of the code generated > > from natural text. The docle code is auto-reflective and explains > > its own meaning. > > > > Note also that "free text entry problem " and "level 4 ehr > > interoperability problem" are the same or essentially the same as > > they both can be addressed from a single SHEEP perspective. > > HTH > > kuang > > > > P.S. BTW Duncan, your cardiology input is appreciated and never > > taken for granted. The use case for "troponitis" is as real and > > relevant as it gets. > > > > On 20/07/2006, at 10:48 PM, Ian Cheong wrote: > > > >> Actually, the preferred method is to record the "free text > >> utterance" of the clinician and attach a coded term to that. > >> > >> Recording only a coded term loses richness and therefore usefulness > >> for human decision makers. > >> > >> Text can be coded after the fact with well designed tools. > >> > >> Loss of specific information is much harder to recreate. > >> > >> > >> Ian. > >> > >> At 5:20 pm +1000 20/7/06, Greg Twyford wrote: > >>> Michael Tooth wrote: > >>>> Peter Machell wrote: > >>>>> On 20/07/2006, at 12:13 PM, Greg Twyford wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> GPs are already coding data in programs like MD. It's > >>>>>> diagnosis/ past > >>>>>> history dialogues have forced them to consciously avoid using > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> available coded entries if they don't want to use them, and > >>>>>> enter > >>>>>> uncoded stuff instead. > >>>>> > >>>>> Most of the MD users I see enter free text for all notes, and > >>>>> are offended when I suggest they first use the 'Reason' button. > >>>>> Isn't it time that coded diagnosis be made the default entry > >>>>> method, with free text a last resort? > >>>> > >>>> You might remember that MD originally only had the coded option, > >>>> but > >>>> that the ability to put uncoded in was really the result of there > >>>> not > >>>> being enough DOCLE codes. > >>>> > >>> > >>> Michael, > >>> > >>> Originally it MD it was much easier for GPs to end up with their > >>> own search entries like 'dia' in their notes, which were > >>> meaningless in terms of coding, when trying to bring up the coded > >>> diagnosis 'diabetes', for example. > >>> > >>> The dialogue was changed to reduce the likelihood of this by > >>> placing the free text box down the bottom and by changing the > >>> action of the search entry box at the top. It's new action ensured > >>> that one of the coded diagnoses was entered from the list when a > >>> search entry like 'dia' was used in the default search entry box > >>> at the top. > >>> > >>> This effectively forced selection of a coded diagnosis/reason/past > >>> history item unless the bottom 'free text' box was consciously > >>> clicked on. > >>> > >>> They also included the diagnosis coding tool in maintenance to > >>> allow uncoded or meaningless entries in the database to be > >>> corrected or linked with coded ones. > >>> > >>> Greg > >>> -- > >>> Greg Twyford > >>> Information Management & Technology Program Officer > >>> Canterbury Division of General Practice > >>> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> Ph.: 02 9787 9033 > >>> Fax: 02 9787 9200 > >>> > >>> PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL > >>> ******************************************************************** > >>> * > >>> ** > >>> The information contained in this e-mail and their attached files, > >>> including replies and forwarded copies, are confidential and > >>> intended > >>> solely for the addressee(s) and may be legally privileged or > >>> prohibited > >>> from disclosure and unauthorised use. If you are not the intended > >>> recipient, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, > >>> disclosure, > >>> modification, distribution and/or publication or any action taken or > >>> omitted to be taken in reliance upon this message or its > >>> attachments is > >>> prohibited. > >>> > >>> All liability for viruses is excluded to the fullest extent > >>> permitted by > >>> law. > >>> ******************************************************************** > >>> * > >>> ** > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Gpcg_talk mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://ozdocit.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gpcg_talk > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Dr Ian R Cheong, BMedSc, FRACGP, GradDipCompSc, MBA(Exec) > >> Health Informatics Consultant, Brisbane, Australia > >> Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> (for urgent matters, please send a copy to my practice email as > >> well: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) > >> > >> PRIVACY NOTE > >> I am happy for others to forward on email sent by me to public > >> email lists. > >> Please ask my permission first if you wish to forward private email > >> to other parties. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Gpcg_talk mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://ozdocit.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gpcg_talk > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gpcg_talk mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://ozdocit.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gpcg_talk > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/394 - Release Date: > > 7/20/2006 > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/394 - Release Date: > > 7/20/2006 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gpcg_talk mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://ozdocit.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gpcg_talk > > _______________________________________________ > Gpcg_talk mailing list > [email protected] > http://ozdocit.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gpcg_talk > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ Gpcg_talk mailing list [email protected] http://ozdocit.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gpcg_talk
