*bobby, * *Adipoli *critical response dprasad
On 7/13/08, Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Should this be posted on de Roover's blog? > > Manufacturing episteme is an important function for any ideology, > particularly in the process of being institutionalised. It's in this > context; one has to ask the question who is Jakob de Roover? A Belgian > academic, who claims specialisation and interest in India, working with the > University of Ghent. Reading his opinions along with his biography, would > remind one of the well-meaning Indologists of the yore – claiming > epistemological expertise with no reference to the experience of the human > beings that's sought to be represented. Now, if one takes a harder look, > de Roover works with S. N. Balagangadhara, and most of the former's writings > have either echoed his mentor or praised him. One only needs to look at the > wiki entry for Balagangadhara, it seems to have been written up by this > ardent discipleship and contains cross-references therein. Then, de Roover > belongs to a different breed of Indologist, but nonetheless with the same > amount of scantiness of respect for the human population that he theorises > on. In short, he plays the same academic game that he claims to abhor and > wants to thrust a point of view from the ringside without adequate > grounding!!! He betrays this in another article on *Does Europe have a > Civilising Mission in India?, * arguing vehemently against the > representation made by Dalit groups before the European Parliament. > > > > Now, having said as much, the purpose of this write up is to rebut the > pernicious and obnoxious thesis put forward by de Roover drawing parallels > between anti-Brahminism with anti-Semitism in his piece *The Parallel > Between anti-Brahminism and anti-Semitism. *At the first glance, the piece > reveals an opinionated mind that has done its homework and has worked on > stereo-types and generalisation to build a thesis and sell it. I am at a > loss how anyone can write such a piece without any reference to Zionism. > This lack of reference plays into the same trick conjured by the State of > Israel of claiming victimhood to prevalent anti-Semitism to legitimise > genocide of Palestinians. This comparison also is an insult to the victims > of the Nazi perpetrated anti-Semitic genocide, given that the symbols of the > Nazi ideology were borrowed wholesale from Brahminical sources – in case of > doubts refer to the Swastika. The next thing that's striking about the > article is a complete lack of understanding of the caste system in South > Asia and how it defines lives in the geo-cultural region. Further, perhaps > de Roover does not understand any of the terms he uses from Brahminism to > Semitism to Social Sciences > > > > The piece is excruciatingly painful in trying to portray the true fact that > Brahmins are a minority in India like the Jews in Europe, where the > similarity begins and ends. In attempting this portrayal, the article > betrays its lack of homework on what Brahminism is and how it operates. Let > me start with a caveat that de Roover glosses over, that brahminism is not > about Brahmins alone, it is about a social system that is so pervasive that > it engulfed even Christianity and Islam that came to the sub-continent much > before the colonising influences with its strict hegemonies. If the European > colonising episteme did help in pointing out the unfairness of the > hierarchy, well and good. In that sense, Brahminism of course, as de Roover > points out is not a religion in the sense of the Judaic faith. > > What is amazing about the opinion is that while discussing an ideology that > affects around one and a half billion people in the South Asian region, > there seems to have been little effort made to look at sources or > methodologies that have worked on the phenomenon called Brahminism. The > piece evidently glosses over numerous studies that have shirked off what de > Roover claims as western epistemology – as non-understnding of caste – to > arrive at Brahminism. I assume, that Dr. B. R. Ambedkar and his ilk might be > contrary to the position that de Roover is trying to propagate, but he could > have at least sought the academic support of people like Dipankar Gupta, > whose ideological positions in international fora strongly resemble de > Roover's. Or, do studies that emanate from the sub-continent too frivolous > for any research on "Indology"? > > Further, de Roover and his ilk promoting a meritorious Indology seem as far > removed from the reality that India is. To start with, throughout the > history of the sub-continent, there have been no reported incidents of > violence against Brahmins, while, the worst victims of Brahminism, Dalits > are the subject of overt and subtle violence on a day to day basis as can be > seen if de Roover reads even mainstream Indian newspapers daily. Of course, > there have been instances of retaliatory violence on the part Dalits, but > those almost always have been directed against the immediate oppressive > castes and in the Indian context, most often, these are the dominant middle > castes and not Brahmins. Further, if de Roover was interested in serious > research on the issue, the fact that it was a party which claims its roots > to the Bahujan (plebeian castes) that first reached out for an alliance with > the Brahmins to a resounding electoral victory in Uttar Pradesh, an effort > that none of the Brahminical parties have made from the BJP to the Congress > to the mainstream left, proving that the fight against Brahminism is a fight > against an oppressive ideology and not a fight against people born in the > Brahmin community > > > > Last, but not the least, in a globalised world, I wonder, how de Roover can > claim epistemological purity in any analysis and further, where does he find > his claim to be authoritative about the subject that he writes about given > the major gaps in research. It is not just ill-advised, but pernicious > throwing questions on the intentions of de Roover, to even attempt the > comparison he has made > > > > > > > On 09/07/2008, C.K. Vishwanath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 1. The Parallel between anti-Brahminism and >> anti-S<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/message/11014;_ylc=X3oDMTJzcGlzNjFzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzU5MzQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRtc2dJZAMxMTAxNARzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMjE1NTM2NjEz>emitism >> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/message/11014;_ylc=X3oDMTJzcGlzNjFzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzU5MzQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRtc2dJZAMxMTAxNARzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMjE1NTM2NjEz> >> Posted >> by >> Thursday, July 03, 2008 >> The Parallel between anti-Brahminism and anti-Semitism >> >> To be against "Brahminism" is part and parcel of the political >> correctness of progressive scholars in twenty-first- century India, >> much like being against Muslims is part of the message of their >> Hindutva colleagues. ... >> >> by Jakob De Roover >> >> Social science debate in India has been hijacked by the struggle >> between secularism and Hindutva for decades now. Usually the Sangh >> Parivar is blamed for this turn of events. However, it could well be >> argued that the Hindutva ideologues simply adopted the stance of the >> secularists. Perhaps the best illustration is the case of >> anti-Brahminism. >> >> To be against "Brahminism" is part and parcel of the political >> correctness of progressive scholars in twenty-first- century India, >> much like being against Muslims is part of the message of their >> Hindutva colleagues. This indicates that something is very wrong with >> the Indian academic debate. Promotion of animosity towards a religious >> tradition or its followers is not acceptable today, but it becomes >> truly perverse when the intelligentsia endorses it. >> >> In Europe, it took horrendous events to put an end to the propaganda >> of anti-Semitism, which had penetrated the media and intelligentsia. >> It required decades of incessant campaigning before anti-Semitism was >> relegated to the realm of intellectual and political bankruptcy. In >> India, anti-Brahminism is still the proud slogan of many political >> parties and the credential of the radical intellectual. >> >> Some may find this parallel between anti-Brahminism and anti-Semitism >> ill-advised. Nevertheless, it has strong grounds. >> >> First, there are striking similarities between the stereotypes about >> Brahmins in India and those about Jews in the West. Jews have been >> described as devious connivers, who would do anything for personal >> gain. They were said to be secretive and untrustworthy, manipulating >> politics and the economy. In India, Brahmins are all too often >> characterised in the same way. >> >> Second, the stereotypes about the Jews were part of a larger story >> about a historical conspiracy in which they had supposedly exploited >> European societies. To this day, the stories about a Jewish conspiracy >> against humanity prevail. The anti-Brahminical stories sound much the >> same, but have the Brahmins plotting against the oppressed classes in >> Indian society. >> >> In both cases, historians have claimed to produce "evidence" that >> cannot be considered so by any standard. Typical of the ideologues of >> anti-Brahminism is the addition of ad hoc ploys whenever their stories >> are challenged by facts. When it is pointed out that the Brahmins have >> not been all that powerful in most parts of the country, or that they >> were poor in many regions, one reverts to the image of the Brahmin >> manipulating kings and politicians behind the scene. We cannot find >> empirical evidence, it is said, because of the secretive way in which >> Brahminism works. >> >> Third, both in anti-Semitic Europe and anti-Brahminical India, this >> goes together with the interpretation of contemporary events in terms >> of these stories. One does not really analyse social tragedies and >> injustices, but approaches them as confirmations of the ideological >> stories. All that goes wrong in society is blamed on the minority in >> question. Violence against Muslims? It must be the "Brahmins" of the >> Sangh Parivar. Opposition against Christian missionaries and the >> approval of anti-conversion laws? "Ah, the Brahmins fear that >> Christianity will empower the lower castes." Members of a scheduled >> caste are killed? "The Brahmin wants to show the Dalit his true place >> in the caste hierarchy." An OBC member loses his job; a lower caste >> girl is raped? "The upper castes must be behind it." So the story >> goes. >> >> This leads to a fourth parallel: in both cases, resentment against the >> minority in question is systematically created and reinforced among >> the majority. >> >> The Jews were accused of sucking all riches out of European societies. >> In the decades before the second World War, more and more people began >> to believe that it was time "to take back what was rightfully theirs." >> In India also, movements have come into being that want to set right >> "the historical injustices of Brahminical oppression." Some have even >> begun to call upon their followers to "exterminate the Brahmins." >> >> In Europe, state policies were implemented that expressed the >> discrimination against Jews. For a very long time, they could not hold >> certain jobs and participate in many social and economic activities. >> In India, one seems to be going this way with policies that claim to >> correct "the historical exploitation by the upper castes." It is >> becoming increasingly difficult for Brahmins to get access to certain >> jobs. In both cases, these policies have been justified in terms of a >> flawed ideological story that passes for social science. >> >> The fifth parallel is that both anti-Semitism and anti-Brahminism have >> deep roots in Christian theology. In the case of Judaism, its >> continuing vitality as a tradition was a threat to Christianity' s >> claim to be the fulfilment of the Jewish prophecies about the Messiah. >> The refusal of Jews to join the religion of Christ (the true Messiah, >> according to Christians) was seen as an unacceptable denial of the >> truth of Christianity. Saint Augustine even wrote that the Jews had to >> continue to exist, but only to show that Christians had not fabricated >> the prophesies about Christ and to confirm that some would not follow >> Christ and be damned for it. >> >> The contemporary stereotypes about Brahmins and the story about >> Brahminism also originate in Christian theology. They reproduce >> Protestant images of the priests of false religion. When European >> missionaries and merchants began to travel to India in great numbers, >> they held two certainties that came from Christian theology: false >> religion would exist in India; and false religion revolved around evil >> priests who had fabricated all kinds of laws, doctrines and rites in >> order to bully the innocent believers into submission. In this way, >> the priests of the devil abused religion for worldly goals. The >> European story about Brahminism and the caste system simply reproduced >> this Protestant image of false religion. The colonials identified the >> Brahmins as the priests and Brahminism as the foundation of false >> religion in India. This is how the dominant image of "the Hindu >> religion" came into being. >> >> The sixth parallel lies in the fact that Christian theology penetrated >> and shaped the "secular" discourse about Judaism and Brahminism. The >> theological criticism became part of common sense and was reproduced >> as scientific truth. In India, this continues unto this day. Social >> scientists still talk about "Brahminism" as the worst thing that ever >> happened to humanity. >> >> Perhaps the most tragic similarity is that some members of the >> minority community have internalised these stories about themselves. >> Some Jews began to believe that they were to blame for what happened >> during the Holocaust; many educated Brahmins now feel that they are >> guilty of historical atrocities against other groups. In some cases, >> this has led to a kind of identity crisis in which they vilify >> "Brahminism" in English-language academic debate, but continue their >> traditions. In other cases, the desire to "defend" these same >> traditions has inspired Brahmins to aggressively support Hindutva. >> >> In twentieth-century Europe, we have seen how dangerous anti-Semitism >> was and what consequences it could have in society. Tragically, >> unimaginable suffering was needed before it was relegated to the realm >> of unacceptable positions. In India, anti-Brahminism was adopted from >> Protestant missionaries by colonial scholars who then passed it on to >> the secularists and Dalit intellectuals. They created the climate which >> allowed the Sangh Parivar to continue hijacking the social sciences >> for petty political purposes. >> >> The question that India has to raise in the twenty-first century is >> this: Do we need bloodshed, before we will realise that the >> reproduction of anti-Brahminism is as harmful as anti-Muslim >> propaganda? What is needed to realise that the Hindutva movement has >> simply taken its cue from the secularists? Do we need a new victory of >> fascism, before we will admit that pernicious ideologies should not be >> sold as social science? >> >> >> >> Visit Your Group >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOTI5cXNnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzU5MzQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMTU1MzY2MTM-> >> Need traffic? >> >> Drive >> customers<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13odrs2t2/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=groups/S=1705064309:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1215543814/L=/B=cmxQAELaX9s-/J=1215536614151727/A=3848644/R=0/SIG=131l83flq/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2006&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups5&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50> >> >> With search ads >> >> on Yahoo! >> 10 Day Club >> >> on Yahoo! >> Groups<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o4fauun/M=493064.12016283.12445687.8674578/D=groups/S=1705064309:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1215543814/L=/B=c2xQAELaX9s-/J=1215536614151727/A=5202316/R=0/SIG=11aijbghb/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/allbrangroup> >> >> Share the benefits >> >> of a high fiber diet. >> Y! 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