Dear Richard I am posting your response in the mailing list where I saw the article first. I had written aresponse,which I shall send you seperately
He does seem to be making an assumption of difference between Hindutva and Brahminism, but there are too many gaps in the piece and it comes across as condescending Love ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Richard Duffee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 14 Jul 2008 20:27 Subject: Re: [GreenYouth] Anti-brahminism and Anti-semitism To: Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bobby, In the last paragraph I don't get the relevance of this question: "What is needed to realise that the Hindutva movement has simply taken its cue from the secularists?" Can you explain? Is he assuming that Hindutva is anti-Brahmin? I don't get it. The whole thing is argument by analogy, and the analogy does not look that close to me. The Jews really have and had a different religion from Christians in Europe. The Brahmins represented and controlled the religion of most Indians. Jews were not allowed to own land in Germany and many other countries--by rule both of the Sanhedrin AND the local states--and that forced them into urban professions to survive. Brahmins were roughly a third of the land-owners of India. Jews were not in a superior position to most Christians. Brahmins were in a superior to the vast majority of Hindus. The analogy is formed on an analogy between current ideology about Brahmins and Jews. From this the author wants us to infer that the two ideologies are equally false and equally destructive without asking seriously whether there is an analogy between historical reality or between the actual relationships between the targetted groups and the rest of society. Richard On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > what do u make of this article > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: C.K. Vishwanath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 9 Jul 2008 10:21 > Subject: [GreenYouth] Anti-brahminism and Anti-semitism > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [email protected] > > > > > > > 1. The Parallel between anti-Brahminism and > anti-S<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/message/11014;_ylc=X3oDMTJzcGlzNjFzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzU5MzQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRtc2dJZAMxMTAxNARzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMjE1NTM2NjEz>emitism > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/message/11014;_ylc=X3oDMTJzcGlzNjFzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzU5MzQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRtc2dJZAMxMTAxNARzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMjE1NTM2NjEz> > Posted > by > Thursday, July 03, 2008 > The Parallel between anti-Brahminism and anti-Semitism > > To be against "Brahminism" is part and parcel of the political > correctness of progressive scholars in twenty-first- century India, > much like being against Muslims is part of the message of their > Hindutva colleagues. ... > > by Jakob De Roover > > Social science debate in India has been hijacked by the struggle > between secularism and Hindutva for decades now. Usually the Sangh > Parivar is blamed for this turn of events. However, it could well be > argued that the Hindutva ideologues simply adopted the stance of the > secularists. Perhaps the best illustration is the case of > anti-Brahminism. > > To be against "Brahminism" is part and parcel of the political > correctness of progressive scholars in twenty-first- century India, > much like being against Muslims is part of the message of their > Hindutva colleagues. This indicates that something is very wrong with > the Indian academic debate. Promotion of animosity towards a religious > tradition or its followers is not acceptable today, but it becomes > truly perverse when the intelligentsia endorses it. > > In Europe, it took horrendous events to put an end to the propaganda > of anti-Semitism, which had penetrated the media and intelligentsia. > It required decades of incessant campaigning before anti-Semitism was > relegated to the realm of intellectual and political bankruptcy. In > India, anti-Brahminism is still the proud slogan of many political > parties and the credential of the radical intellectual. > > Some may find this parallel between anti-Brahminism and anti-Semitism > ill-advised. Nevertheless, it has strong grounds. > > First, there are striking similarities between the stereotypes about > Brahmins in India and those about Jews in the West. Jews have been > described as devious connivers, who would do anything for personal > gain. They were said to be secretive and untrustworthy, manipulating > politics and the economy. In India, Brahmins are all too often > characterised in the same way. > > Second, the stereotypes about the Jews were part of a larger story > about a historical conspiracy in which they had supposedly exploited > European societies. To this day, the stories about a Jewish conspiracy > against humanity prevail. The anti-Brahminical stories sound much the > same, but have the Brahmins plotting against the oppressed classes in > Indian society. > > In both cases, historians have claimed to produce "evidence" that > cannot be considered so by any standard. Typical of the ideologues of > anti-Brahminism is the addition of ad hoc ploys whenever their stories > are challenged by facts. When it is pointed out that the Brahmins have > not been all that powerful in most parts of the country, or that they > were poor in many regions, one reverts to the image of the Brahmin > manipulating kings and politicians behind the scene. We cannot find > empirical evidence, it is said, because of the secretive way in which > Brahminism works. > > Third, both in anti-Semitic Europe and anti-Brahminical India, this > goes together with the interpretation of contemporary events in terms > of these stories. One does not really analyse social tragedies and > injustices, but approaches them as confirmations of the ideological > stories. All that goes wrong in society is blamed on the minority in > question. Violence against Muslims? It must be the "Brahmins" of the > Sangh Parivar. Opposition against Christian missionaries and the > approval of anti-conversion laws? "Ah, the Brahmins fear that > Christianity will empower the lower castes." Members of a scheduled > caste are killed? "The Brahmin wants to show the Dalit his true place > in the caste hierarchy." An OBC member loses his job; a lower caste > girl is raped? "The upper castes must be behind it." So the story > goes. > > This leads to a fourth parallel: in both cases, resentment against the > minority in question is systematically created and reinforced among > the majority. > > The Jews were accused of sucking all riches out of European societies. > In the decades before the second World War, more and more people began > to believe that it was time "to take back what was rightfully theirs." > In India also, movements have come into being that want to set right > "the historical injustices of Brahminical oppression." Some have even > begun to call upon their followers to "exterminate the Brahmins." > > In Europe, state policies were implemented that expressed the > discrimination against Jews. For a very long time, they could not hold > certain jobs and participate in many social and economic activities. > In India, one seems to be going this way with policies that claim to > correct "the historical exploitation by the upper castes." It is > becoming increasingly difficult for Brahmins to get access to certain > jobs. In both cases, these policies have been justified in terms of a > flawed ideological story that passes for social science. > > The fifth parallel is that both anti-Semitism and anti-Brahminism have > deep roots in Christian theology. In the case of Judaism, its > continuing vitality as a tradition was a threat to Christianity' s > claim to be the fulfilment of the Jewish prophecies about the Messiah. > The refusal of Jews to join the religion of Christ (the true Messiah, > according to Christians) was seen as an unacceptable denial of the > truth of Christianity. Saint Augustine even wrote that the Jews had to > continue to exist, but only to show that Christians had not fabricated > the prophesies about Christ and to confirm that some would not follow > Christ and be damned for it. > > The contemporary stereotypes about Brahmins and the story about > Brahminism also originate in Christian theology. They reproduce > Protestant images of the priests of false religion. When European > missionaries and merchants began to travel to India in great numbers, > they held two certainties that came from Christian theology: false > religion would exist in India; and false religion revolved around evil > priests who had fabricated all kinds of laws, doctrines and rites in > order to bully the innocent believers into submission. In this way, > the priests of the devil abused religion for worldly goals. The > European story about Brahminism and the caste system simply reproduced > this Protestant image of false religion. The colonials identified the > Brahmins as the priests and Brahminism as the foundation of false > religion in India. This is how the dominant image of "the Hindu > religion" came into being. > > The sixth parallel lies in the fact that Christian theology penetrated > and shaped the "secular" discourse about Judaism and Brahminism. The > theological criticism became part of common sense and was reproduced > as scientific truth. In India, this continues unto this day. Social > scientists still talk about "Brahminism" as the worst thing that ever > happened to humanity. > > Perhaps the most tragic similarity is that some members of the > minority community have internalised these stories about themselves. > Some Jews began to believe that they were to blame for what happened > during the Holocaust; many educated Brahmins now feel that they are > guilty of historical atrocities against other groups. In some cases, > this has led to a kind of identity crisis in which they vilify > "Brahminism" in English-language academic debate, but continue their > traditions. In other cases, the desire to "defend" these same > traditions has inspired Brahmins to aggressively support Hindutva. > > In twentieth-century Europe, we have seen how dangerous anti-Semitism > was and what consequences it could have in society. Tragically, > unimaginable suffering was needed before it was relegated to the realm > of unacceptable positions. In India, anti-Brahminism was adopted from > Protestant missionaries by colonial scholars who then passed it on to > the secularists and Dalit intellectuals. They created the climate which > allowed the Sangh Parivar to continue hijacking the social sciences > for petty political purposes. > > The question that India has to raise in the twenty-first century is > this: Do we need bloodshed, before we will realise that the > reproduction of anti-Brahminism is as harmful as anti-Muslim > propaganda? What is needed to realise that the Hindutva movement has > simply taken its cue from the secularists? Do we need a new victory of > fascism, before we will admit that pernicious ideologies should not be > sold as social science? > > > > Visit Your Group > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOTI5cXNnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzU5MzQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMTU1MzY2MTM-> > Need traffic? > > Drive > customers<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13odrs2t2/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=groups/S=1705064309:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1215543814/L=/B=cmxQAELaX9s-/J=1215536614151727/A=3848644/R=0/SIG=131l83flq/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2006&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups5&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50> > > With search ads > > on Yahoo! > 10 Day Club > > on Yahoo! > Groups<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o4fauun/M=493064.12016283.12445687.8674578/D=groups/S=1705064309:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1215543814/L=/B=c2xQAELaX9s-/J=1215536614151727/A=5202316/R=0/SIG=11aijbghb/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/allbrangroup> > > Share the benefits > > of a high fiber diet. > Y! Groups blog > > the best > source<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o5irv16/M=493064.12016258.12582637.8674578/D=groups/S=1705064309:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1215543814/L=/B=dGxQAELaX9s-/J=1215536614151727/A=5191955/R=0/SIG=112mhte3e/*http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/> > > for the latest > > scoop on Groups. > Need to Reply? > > Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the > Daily Digest. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Bobby Kunhu > http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
