Very good response... Do post it as a response wherever his article came....
Regards Afthab Ellath On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 7:46 AM, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > *bobby, * > *Adipoli *critical response > dprasad > > > On 7/13/08, Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Should this be posted on de Roover's blog? >> >> Manufacturing episteme is an important function for any ideology, >> particularly in the process of being institutionalised. It's in this >> context; one has to ask the question who is Jakob de Roover? A Belgian >> academic, who claims specialisation and interest in India, working with the >> University of Ghent. Reading his opinions along with his biography, would >> remind one of the well-meaning Indologists of the yore – claiming >> epistemological expertise with no reference to the experience of the human >> beings that's sought to be represented. Now, if one takes a harder look, >> de Roover works with S. N. Balagangadhara, and most of the former's writings >> have either echoed his mentor or praised him. One only needs to look at the >> wiki entry for Balagangadhara, it seems to have been written up by this >> ardent discipleship and contains cross-references therein. Then, de Roover >> belongs to a different breed of Indologist, but nonetheless with the same >> amount of scantiness of respect for the human population that he theorises >> on. In short, he plays the same academic game that he claims to abhor and >> wants to thrust a point of view from the ringside without adequate >> grounding!!! He betrays this in another article on *Does Europe have a >> Civilising Mission in India?, * arguing vehemently against the >> representation made by Dalit groups before the European Parliament. >> >> >> >> Now, having said as much, the purpose of this write up is to rebut the >> pernicious and obnoxious thesis put forward by de Roover drawing parallels >> between anti-Brahminism with anti-Semitism in his piece *The Parallel >> Between anti-Brahminism and anti-Semitism. *At the first glance, the >> piece reveals an opinionated mind that has done its homework and has worked >> on stereo-types and generalisation to build a thesis and sell it. I am at a >> loss how anyone can write such a piece without any reference to Zionism. >> This lack of reference plays into the same trick conjured by the State of >> Israel of claiming victimhood to prevalent anti-Semitism to legitimise >> genocide of Palestinians. This comparison also is an insult to the victims >> of the Nazi perpetrated anti-Semitic genocide, given that the symbols of the >> Nazi ideology were borrowed wholesale from Brahminical sources – in case of >> doubts refer to the Swastika. The next thing that's striking about the >> article is a complete lack of understanding of the caste system in South >> Asia and how it defines lives in the geo-cultural region. Further, perhaps >> de Roover does not understand any of the terms he uses from Brahminism to >> Semitism to Social Sciences >> >> >> >> The piece is excruciatingly painful in trying to portray the true fact >> that Brahmins are a minority in India like the Jews in Europe, where the >> similarity begins and ends. In attempting this portrayal, the article >> betrays its lack of homework on what Brahminism is and how it operates. Let >> me start with a caveat that de Roover glosses over, that brahminism is not >> about Brahmins alone, it is about a social system that is so pervasive that >> it engulfed even Christianity and Islam that came to the sub-continent much >> before the colonising influences with its strict hegemonies. If the European >> colonising episteme did help in pointing out the unfairness of the >> hierarchy, well and good. In that sense, Brahminism of course, as de Roover >> points out is not a religion in the sense of the Judaic faith. >> >> What is amazing about the opinion is that while discussing an ideology >> that affects around one and a half billion people in the South Asian region, >> there seems to have been little effort made to look at sources or >> methodologies that have worked on the phenomenon called Brahminism. The >> piece evidently glosses over numerous studies that have shirked off what de >> Roover claims as western epistemology – as non-understnding of caste – to >> arrive at Brahminism. I assume, that Dr. B. R. Ambedkar and his ilk might be >> contrary to the position that de Roover is trying to propagate, but he could >> have at least sought the academic support of people like Dipankar Gupta, >> whose ideological positions in international fora strongly resemble de >> Roover's. Or, do studies that emanate from the sub-continent too frivolous >> for any research on "Indology"? >> >> Further, de Roover and his ilk promoting a meritorious Indology seem as >> far removed from the reality that India is. To start with, throughout the >> history of the sub-continent, there have been no reported incidents of >> violence against Brahmins, while, the worst victims of Brahminism, Dalits >> are the subject of overt and subtle violence on a day to day basis as can be >> seen if de Roover reads even mainstream Indian newspapers daily. Of course, >> there have been instances of retaliatory violence on the part Dalits, but >> those almost always have been directed against the immediate oppressive >> castes and in the Indian context, most often, these are the dominant middle >> castes and not Brahmins. Further, if de Roover was interested in serious >> research on the issue, the fact that it was a party which claims its roots >> to the Bahujan (plebeian castes) that first reached out for an alliance with >> the Brahmins to a resounding electoral victory in Uttar Pradesh, an effort >> that none of the Brahminical parties have made from the BJP to the Congress >> to the mainstream left, proving that the fight against Brahminism is a fight >> against an oppressive ideology and not a fight against people born in the >> Brahmin community >> >> >> >> Last, but not the least, in a globalised world, I wonder, how de Roover >> can claim epistemological purity in any analysis and further, where does he >> find his claim to be authoritative about the subject that he writes about >> given the major gaps in research. It is not just ill-advised, but pernicious >> throwing questions on the intentions of de Roover, to even attempt the >> comparison he has made >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 09/07/2008, C.K. Vishwanath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. The Parallel between anti-Brahminism and >>> anti-S<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/message/11014;_ylc=X3oDMTJzcGlzNjFzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzU5MzQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRtc2dJZAMxMTAxNARzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMjE1NTM2NjEz>emitism >>> >>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/message/11014;_ylc=X3oDMTJzcGlzNjFzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzU5MzQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRtc2dJZAMxMTAxNARzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMjE1NTM2NjEz> >>> Posted >>> by >>> Thursday, July 03, 2008 >>> The Parallel between anti-Brahminism and anti-Semitism >>> >>> To be against "Brahminism" is part and parcel of the political >>> correctness of progressive scholars in twenty-first- century India, >>> much like being against Muslims is part of the message of their >>> Hindutva colleagues. ... >>> >>> by Jakob De Roover >>> >>> Social science debate in India has been hijacked by the struggle >>> between secularism and Hindutva for decades now. Usually the Sangh >>> Parivar is blamed for this turn of events. However, it could well be >>> argued that the Hindutva ideologues simply adopted the stance of the >>> secularists. Perhaps the best illustration is the case of >>> anti-Brahminism. >>> >>> To be against "Brahminism" is part and parcel of the political >>> correctness of progressive scholars in twenty-first- century India, >>> much like being against Muslims is part of the message of their >>> Hindutva colleagues. This indicates that something is very wrong with >>> the Indian academic debate. Promotion of animosity towards a religious >>> tradition or its followers is not acceptable today, but it becomes >>> truly perverse when the intelligentsia endorses it. >>> >>> In Europe, it took horrendous events to put an end to the propaganda >>> of anti-Semitism, which had penetrated the media and intelligentsia. >>> It required decades of incessant campaigning before anti-Semitism was >>> relegated to the realm of intellectual and political bankruptcy. In >>> India, anti-Brahminism is still the proud slogan of many political >>> parties and the credential of the radical intellectual. >>> >>> Some may find this parallel between anti-Brahminism and anti-Semitism >>> ill-advised. Nevertheless, it has strong grounds. >>> >>> First, there are striking similarities between the stereotypes about >>> Brahmins in India and those about Jews in the West. Jews have been >>> described as devious connivers, who would do anything for personal >>> gain. They were said to be secretive and untrustworthy, manipulating >>> politics and the economy. In India, Brahmins are all too often >>> characterised in the same way. >>> >>> Second, the stereotypes about the Jews were part of a larger story >>> about a historical conspiracy in which they had supposedly exploited >>> European societies. To this day, the stories about a Jewish conspiracy >>> against humanity prevail. The anti-Brahminical stories sound much the >>> same, but have the Brahmins plotting against the oppressed classes in >>> Indian society. >>> >>> In both cases, historians have claimed to produce "evidence" that >>> cannot be considered so by any standard. Typical of the ideologues of >>> anti-Brahminism is the addition of ad hoc ploys whenever their stories >>> are challenged by facts. When it is pointed out that the Brahmins have >>> not been all that powerful in most parts of the country, or that they >>> were poor in many regions, one reverts to the image of the Brahmin >>> manipulating kings and politicians behind the scene. We cannot find >>> empirical evidence, it is said, because of the secretive way in which >>> Brahminism works. >>> >>> Third, both in anti-Semitic Europe and anti-Brahminical India, this >>> goes together with the interpretation of contemporary events in terms >>> of these stories. One does not really analyse social tragedies and >>> injustices, but approaches them as confirmations of the ideological >>> stories. All that goes wrong in society is blamed on the minority in >>> question. Violence against Muslims? It must be the "Brahmins" of the >>> Sangh Parivar. Opposition against Christian missionaries and the >>> approval of anti-conversion laws? "Ah, the Brahmins fear that >>> Christianity will empower the lower castes." Members of a scheduled >>> caste are killed? "The Brahmin wants to show the Dalit his true place >>> in the caste hierarchy." An OBC member loses his job; a lower caste >>> girl is raped? "The upper castes must be behind it." So the story >>> goes. >>> >>> This leads to a fourth parallel: in both cases, resentment against the >>> minority in question is systematically created and reinforced among >>> the majority. >>> >>> The Jews were accused of sucking all riches out of European societies. >>> In the decades before the second World War, more and more people began >>> to believe that it was time "to take back what was rightfully theirs." >>> In India also, movements have come into being that want to set right >>> "the historical injustices of Brahminical oppression." Some have even >>> begun to call upon their followers to "exterminate the Brahmins." >>> >>> In Europe, state policies were implemented that expressed the >>> discrimination against Jews. For a very long time, they could not hold >>> certain jobs and participate in many social and economic activities. >>> In India, one seems to be going this way with policies that claim to >>> correct "the historical exploitation by the upper castes." It is >>> becoming increasingly difficult for Brahmins to get access to certain >>> jobs. In both cases, these policies have been justified in terms of a >>> flawed ideological story that passes for social science. >>> >>> The fifth parallel is that both anti-Semitism and anti-Brahminism have >>> deep roots in Christian theology. In the case of Judaism, its >>> continuing vitality as a tradition was a threat to Christianity' s >>> claim to be the fulfilment of the Jewish prophecies about the Messiah. >>> The refusal of Jews to join the religion of Christ (the true Messiah, >>> according to Christians) was seen as an unacceptable denial of the >>> truth of Christianity. Saint Augustine even wrote that the Jews had to >>> continue to exist, but only to show that Christians had not fabricated >>> the prophesies about Christ and to confirm that some would not follow >>> Christ and be damned for it. >>> >>> The contemporary stereotypes about Brahmins and the story about >>> Brahminism also originate in Christian theology. They reproduce >>> Protestant images of the priests of false religion. When European >>> missionaries and merchants began to travel to India in great numbers, >>> they held two certainties that came from Christian theology: false >>> religion would exist in India; and false religion revolved around evil >>> priests who had fabricated all kinds of laws, doctrines and rites in >>> order to bully the innocent believers into submission. In this way, >>> the priests of the devil abused religion for worldly goals. The >>> European story about Brahminism and the caste system simply reproduced >>> this Protestant image of false religion. The colonials identified the >>> Brahmins as the priests and Brahminism as the foundation of false >>> religion in India. This is how the dominant image of "the Hindu >>> religion" came into being. >>> >>> The sixth parallel lies in the fact that Christian theology penetrated >>> and shaped the "secular" discourse about Judaism and Brahminism. The >>> theological criticism became part of common sense and was reproduced >>> as scientific truth. In India, this continues unto this day. Social >>> scientists still talk about "Brahminism" as the worst thing that ever >>> happened to humanity. >>> >>> Perhaps the most tragic similarity is that some members of the >>> minority community have internalised these stories about themselves. >>> Some Jews began to believe that they were to blame for what happened >>> during the Holocaust; many educated Brahmins now feel that they are >>> guilty of historical atrocities against other groups. In some cases, >>> this has led to a kind of identity crisis in which they vilify >>> "Brahminism" in English-language academic debate, but continue their >>> traditions. In other cases, the desire to "defend" these same >>> traditions has inspired Brahmins to aggressively support Hindutva. >>> >>> In twentieth-century Europe, we have seen how dangerous anti-Semitism >>> was and what consequences it could have in society. Tragically, >>> unimaginable suffering was needed before it was relegated to the realm >>> of unacceptable positions. In India, anti-Brahminism was adopted from >>> Protestant missionaries by colonial scholars who then passed it on to >>> the secularists and Dalit intellectuals. They created the climate which >>> allowed the Sangh Parivar to continue hijacking the social sciences >>> for petty political purposes. >>> >>> The question that India has to raise in the twenty-first century is >>> this: Do we need bloodshed, before we will realise that the >>> reproduction of anti-Brahminism is as harmful as anti-Muslim >>> propaganda? What is needed to realise that the Hindutva movement has >>> simply taken its cue from the secularists? Do we need a new victory of >>> fascism, before we will admit that pernicious ideologies should not be >>> sold as social science? >>> >>> >>> >>> Visit Your Group >>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOTI5cXNnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzU5MzQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMTU1MzY2MTM-> >>> Need traffic? >>> >>> Drive >>> customers<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13odrs2t2/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=groups/S=1705064309:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1215543814/L=/B=cmxQAELaX9s-/J=1215536614151727/A=3848644/R=0/SIG=131l83flq/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2006&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups5&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50> >>> >>> With search ads >>> >>> on Yahoo! >>> 10 Day Club >>> >>> on Yahoo! >>> Groups<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o4fauun/M=493064.12016283.12445687.8674578/D=groups/S=1705064309:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1215543814/L=/B=c2xQAELaX9s-/J=1215536614151727/A=5202316/R=0/SIG=11aijbghb/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/allbrangroup> >>> >>> Share the benefits >>> >>> of a high fiber diet. >>> Y! 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