Maya, Please don't take any thing as personal attack.
Perhaps, It all happens because you cease to be seen just as an individual, while you apparently want to represent / defend feminists in Kerala, albeit in a limited / unlimited sense. When you refer to "feminists in Kerala', you seem to talk about just one or few known groups ,organizations,persons or things like that, As a Collective. This Collective, if I can call it so, is already under criticism for many things- Like implicitly defending the logic of the WC's recent advertisement, Denying women equality and citizenship, or At least, Being neutral to such issues faced by marginalized women, for whom the penkodathis are mainly organized. Yet, this (supposed or real) collectivity claims themselves to be feminists.!.. That too to, the exclusion of others who would rather defend assertions by marginalized women as full citizens . Citizenship is not a bad word for these people, when it is something worth for others. Beyond these above, Are we sharing our points of view here as individuals,or otherwise? I remember a renowned defender of w omen's rights and writer, having declared in a public discussion( which took place at Thrissur a few months ago) that the feminists of Kerala would never accept a view equating sex work to any form of labour. Did she speak as an individual, or on behalf of an organization? If the statement were made on behalf of all feminists of Kerala, I would have liked to know the name of that (All Kerala Feminists) organization which was being referred to. Therefore, let us try to find answer to this question, at least, for the sake of ours own deeper understanding of the issues involved- Are we expressing here the views as individuals or representatives of organizations? Whatever is it ,please see no criticism as personal attack. Regards, Venu. as an insider even an element of self criticism/criticism of such things with which you might be connected. On Mar 12, 1:22 pm, Maya <[email protected]> wrote: > Venuettan, > I havnt denied the demand for equal citizenship.! I think feminists in > Kerala are also demanding that in various ways. But discussions hve gone out > of being in the limits of 'democrticlly minded'. Thats just a usage of any > typical party , I would say. It is the problem of believing in the state and > democracy. > > And if you and ranju felt my statements in a mood of 'they dont understand', > I have no way to explain anything. It is the problem of being strangers > subjectively. Especially, Ranju write like this then contradicting manner to > his/her other letter- " * rather making a general statement in the context > of maya's mail. * > *this sympathy and love for the marginalised has been the hallmark of > "modern" ways of perpetuating violence. (look at the State/Party/Womens > commsn/etc all love the marginalised..)* > How could it be called -this sympathy and love to the marginalised, in the > context refering to what I wrote.! > Other women concept is taken like a bad thing here by him and in the other > email he/she wrote it is taken as a relevant point to counter my point > again! Saying that any caste/class/race woman can understand the problems of > any other caste/class/race ! Actually what does it mean? Does Ranju support > the idea that there is difference or not? Why did he/she picturiseed then it > as a symathy/love when someone tries to talk about different knids of > programs for different knids of women! So contradictory. > And it is very difficult to discuss with people who dont know each other > subjectively/personally as they just want to misunderstand ! > So I stop here with this topic. > - Show quoted text - > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 9:34 AM, venukm <[email protected]> wrote: > > > An error corrected: > > Y chromozome is only 1/5 th of the X > > On Mar 7, 8:53 am, venukm <[email protected]> wrote: > > > But it's not bad to work toward feminizing the human..Masculine in the > > > biological angle is only a modification of the X to somewhat inferior Y > > > (about half the size of the stronger X, according to scientists) ,only > > > for the purpose of propagating the race. If you don't want to > > > propagate the race for some good, forget Y and think of the > > > desirability of X. > > > Sreeni, I would say that all other divisions of masculine and feminine > > > are socially constructed and certainly need to be challenged . Esp > > > after the crashing in of queer theory by Judith Butler in the gender > > > discourse,the entire orientation has changed .According to > > > Butler,there is only very small difference between the so called > > > male,female and the trans when we consider both from a biological and > > > social perspective. Therefore, there is absolutely no point in our > > > disproportionate celebrations of masculine and feminie. > > > So, de-gendering (feminizing, in a sense) is not only desirable, but > > > it is also vitally needed for maintaining any hope for the future of > > > the human race. It simply helps curing the tendency of gendered humans > > > to gravitate to power and violence. > > > > On Mar 7, 8:00 am, "sreenivas v.p" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi Maya , > > > > Any forms of feminism that discard the ideas of "masculinity " and > > "femininity " > > > > is rubbish . Gender equality cannot be applied if we ignor the basic > > needs of men and women with respect to their sexuality . I think feminists, > > to a certain extent has contaminated the womanly qualities . > > > > and i dont think you are fighting for equality . What you want is > > feminisation of the world . > > > > regards > > > > sreenivas > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/3/09, Maya <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > From: Maya <[email protected]> > > > > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: March-8-Interntional Women` Day > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Date: Friday, 6 March, 2009, 10:43 PM > > > > > This is a program to speak out the limitations of WC and the drawbacks > > of existing law nd order , as far as I could understand. I participate as I > > think there is space to bring out the issues of patriarchy, gender and > > sexuality too gradually. Or I think feminist activists should try to make > > such a space in such programs. > > > > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:49 PM, venukm <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I didn't mean that one or other doesn't understand those questions . > > > > On the contrary, I wanted to raise a few questions about the > > > > calculative silence ,or rather, > > > > the conspiracy of silence of the opinion makers including prominent > > > > fighters for women's cause. > > > > In spite of having fought many a successful battle on the issue of > > > > peedanam for nearly two and a half decades, > > > > the fighters for women's rights cause here in Kerala do not want to > > > > address > > > > the core question;ie, the issue of gender justice vis a vis full > > > > citizenship, > > > > This is esp true in the context of sexuality and autonomy over body. > > > > I'm sure Maya has not missed the advertisement by the WC, issued in > > > > service of women as tips for their protection against violence. > > > > It is mainly addressed to the middle class women and women who have > > > > access to the internet, mobile phone and the 'outlandish' concepts of > > > > fashion and beauty. It warns against women falling prey to > > > > globalization. > > > > It virtually ignores the plight of the women Maya had been referring > > > > to, who are in fact much more exposed to outright violence and rape > > > > within and outside the family in their day to day lives...In many > > > > cases they are mercilessly thrown in the hands of racketeers by their > > > > own relatives and yet it is they who they are warned against 'misuse' > > > > of mobile phones and the internet. > > > > If my understanding is correct, it is not the poor girls/ women who > > > > are"misusing".It would be more accurate to say that in the course of > > > > genuine use of these gadgets, there are chances of being victimized > > > > through the misuse by gangsters. In that sense, even while > > > > legitimately seeking entertainment and pleasure through the cyber > > > > world, one has reasons to be warned. Girls wearing genes, visiting > > > > pub, using the internet ,using mobile phones themselves need not be > > > > the causes of peedanam. On the contrary, what the cultural elite > > > > advices the ill-educated or semi literate girls is to shun these as > > > > pitfalls created by the forces of globalization . Again, authenticity > > > > to express as individuals is arbitrarily denied to these category of > > > > women. > > > > It is embarrassing that the chair persons of the state and the > > > > central commissions for women have gone on record > > > > denigrating questions of sexuality as central to the problem of > > > > peedanam. > > > > Unfortunately, despite her understanding of the issue in right > > > > perspective, Maya argues that majority of women are yet not > > > > enlightened enough to express as individuals sans wifes/daughters/ > > > > sisters, as persons with rights to citizenship! > > > > This is the crux of the issue. Written law is one thing and the > > > > unwritten law of the society and family is another. > > > > I didn't want to belittle the importance of struggles and campaigns > > > > like pennkodathi. > > > > But I was only trying to whether they would ever be able to guide or > > > > lead the women on the lines of defending their rights for sexuality > > > > beyond the bounds of patriarchy. It is not just about pragmatism but > > > > politics and gender justice. Do you (Maya) mean to say that the time > > > > has not yet come to talk patriarchy?If yes, I beg to disagree. > > > > Regards, > > > > Venu. > > > > > On 5 Mar, 22:03, Maya <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I do understand these questions. And I know all the sentences nthis > > notice > > > > > were not good a all ( to be frank, it was not mine anyway, though I > > do > > > > > support in the program. ) And some of the feminists (including me) > > have > > > > > raised such questions and have discussed it even long back. But, I > > think we > > > > > have to see some realities. > > > > > Having autonomy over own bodies and not being labelled as victims - > > are > > > > > meant for *already liberated women*.( educated/employed//upper-middle > > > > > class/ideological/political/social -individual women and groups of > > them) > > > > > Women who are never exposed to the feminist thought are many in > > Kerala ( > > > > > India in general, I would say). And among women from that large > > category , > > > > > there are many who literally suffer ' peedanam' as a vidhi. And they > > cry out > > > > > just because their bodies are injured and because they are afraid of > > loosing > > > > > life. They do file cases and fail and sometimes become helpless with > > their > > > > > superstitions and stigma etc. > > > > > I dont think time has changed that much taht we should only do talk > > to them > > > > > about being " active individuals/ collectivities > > > > > fighting , challenging the male regime of gender and sexuality on the > > > > > one hand, and demanding progressive reforms in education about sex > > and > > > > > reproduction on the other". > > > > > They dont even know what gender and sexuality mean. They jsut want > > some way > > > > > first, to save themselves from the brutality that they face from men > > inside > > > > > or outside house. So first the gradual changing steps still would > > have to be > > > > > fllowed. > > > > > Socially yes, it is high time to break the patriarchal family and > > social > > > > > system. But In the short time of twenty years, the women`s rights has > > > > > not fully enterd into the grass root level of society and major life > > > > > situations still follow typical victimization. > > > > > So, I think, even though it is time to strenthen the discourse of > > sexuality > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
