This sort of thing makes me uncomfortable. What wouldn't make me uncomfortable is if we had a way to just kill notifying if a user uninstalled before, and our pkg installer wasn't the thing that reinstalled Growl. But I don't know of a good way to do that without other problems we've discussed previously on the list.
Chris On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 9:05 PM, Tarun Nagpal <[email protected]> wrote: > Chris, > > To get back to the issue: Would it be reasonable to block apps that > install Growl surreptitiously? There wouldn't be much of a point of > Dropbox installing growl if Growl no longer accepted Dropbox > notifications. Obviously they haven't responded to a serious issue and > it seems that this sort of punishment would get their attention. Yes > it would hurt users, but the long term benefits should be there as > they clean up their act. > > On Oct 19, 10:03 am, Christopher Forsythe <[email protected]> wrote: >> My apologies for Nicholas taking up a large portion of time and >> distracting everyone. He is now banned, as stated in the last email if >> he continued on this thread. >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 5:25 AM, Nicholas Sanders <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Chris >> > While I don't entirely agree with you, I have tried to understand what you >> > are saying from your perspective - an impossible but worthwhile aspiration >> > in any circumstances. It is always interesting (if often painful) to learn >> > how others see one, and you clearly have a long memory for my defects. >> > But if I try to see the world from your side, I think it only fair that you >> > try to see it from mine. For one thing, it is crystal clear that you have >> > no >> > inkling at all as to why a mere subscriber might take offence at attacks on >> > the authors of the software, or that the use of certain terms might pain a >> > reader, whoever they are used by and at whom directed. Where I see a world >> > I >> > only inhabit, you apparently see one which you want to control - no room >> > there for diversity of comprehension, sadly. >> > Whatever of that, I have at no time attempted to defend, excuse or justify >> > my mistake - I have freely admitted it, and apologised for it. What is >> > causing me the problem here is that I feel that I am being insulted and >> > bullied, and I don't like it. The validity of your case (which I in no way >> > dispute) is maligned by your rudeness and your threats, when the most I >> > needed from you was your gentle reminder that my sarcastic one liners do >> > not >> > in fact help anybody's cause. >> > I am at least two people - one of them wants simply to apologise and >> > promise >> > to try never to do something of the kind again, while the other is >> > possessed >> > by the need to assert that this is not because of being threatened. The >> > anger which you hold makes resolution of this dichotomy impossible for me. >> > You say that I have no right to be angry about the kind of post that >> > initiated this thread, but I am not. I don't think you actually mean >> > "right" >> > here but, in any case, it is not anger that I have felt or feel now. Rather >> > is there here another human who has his own life experience (clearly very >> > much longer than yours, as it happens), and for whom the issue is rather >> > one >> > of hurt. And this human feels he has every "right" to be hurt - by the >> > original poster, by your intemperate words, by your bullying behaviour. >> > I have no clear idea as to why you think you will improve a situation by >> > using threats and offensive language but doing so is your choice, just as >> > it >> > is my choice to continue to discuss the matter in spite of my risking being >> > banned by doing so. I don't want to be banned, but neither do I want you or >> > anyone else to think that I accept your threats as a valid basis for my >> > behaviour choices. >> > My closing position is that you are right that my action was childish (I >> > believe I was the first to say so) and you are also right that I have erred >> > in similar style in the past (which fact may indicate a personality defect >> > similar to your own, although I believe we differ on which is actually >> > poisonous). You are not right to bully or threaten me, not least because to >> > do so is as ineffective and pointless as my childish remarks, and >> > contradicts your own exhortation to be a nice person too. >> > I have already apologised for causing the upset - I do so again now, >> > without >> > reservation. I will not enter into any contract not to fail in the same >> > manner again as long as my doing so is conditioned by fear of the result, >> > nor is there any need for me to do so since I have at no time attempted to >> > justify this kind of action anyway and wouldn't perform it if I thought >> > first. Your threats are empty, not because you won't carry them out but >> > because they cannot achieve your purpose. >> > If I have anything further to add to the thread, I will do so direct to >> > yourself - notwithstanding that you have warned me against doing that too. >> > Anyhow, it's late for Eid and early for Thanksgiving - tomorrow is the >> > Birthday of the Bab so I wish all readers the most sincere greetings for >> > that. >> > Nick out… >> >> > On 19 Oct 2010, at 00:30, Christopher Forsythe wrote: >> >> > Every time I started to type this email, I found myself not being able >> > to complete it, so I stepped away. I think you aren't reading what I'm >> > saying how I'm thinking it in my head, so I'm going to reiterate it in >> > a different manner. After this, this thread needs to die. If you are >> > confused, reread this. I will be as clear here as I am ever going to >> > be. >> >> > When I thought about what kind of user you are to our community. I >> > came to the conclusion that you are verging on being a poisonous >> > person. Please see >> >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645# if you >> > have not seen it already, it's an excellent talk about the type of >> > person I think you are verging on becoming. >> >> > The reason I say this is due to a pattern in responses which have no >> > value, other than to be annoying. Here is a small list I found by just >> > searching for about 3 minutes, I stopped looking once I hit 4 emails: >> >> >http://groups.google.com/group/growldiscuss/msg/a19a2ff6a84ebdd8 >> >http://groups.google.com/group/growldiscuss/msg/872c304048d33e0a >> >http://groups.google.com/group/growldiscuss/msg/74b285e15eb9ebf2 >> >http://groups.google.com/group/growldiscuss/msg/be17f47730a0cc5f >> >> > Some common themes here are: >> >> > - Lack of useful responses >> > - Sarcasm verging on starting a heated discussion on a thread >> > - Short responses >> >> > This all said, you do provide some great feedback.When I found you >> > provided the best feedback it was about your specific problems though. >> >> > You responded to this user first. The user does not have a way to >> > differentiate who represents the project, and who is merely a member >> > of this mailing list/discussion group. As such, you represented this >> > entire group. You did so in a very sarcastic manner, with none of the >> > following: >> >> > - No quality control. >> > - No useful information to help the end user >> > - No helping at all >> >> > All of this to what end? No good one as far as I'm concerned. So no, I >> > do not believe you were wishing him a Merry Christmas. I know you were >> > in fact being a prick. Which is why I'm angry at you. You basically >> > just gave us a worse name to this user than we already had to him. >> > Which isn't a good place for us to be in, seeing how this can all be >> > avoided very easily. >> >> > Now, instead, you could have taken these actions, and not come across >> > as someone who is simply out to make himself feel good for 2 seconds >> > for a childish act: >> >> > - Responded with the link to the article about this issue >> > - Responded saying you understand, and providing details about how >> > dropbox is actually doing this, and then how to remove Growl >> > - Not responded at all >> >> > These 3 responses at the very least would have been more beneficial >> > than the response you chose to make. >> >> > Since you decided to send your sarcastic email to the list publicly, I >> > decided to reprimand you publicly. I will reiterate what I said >> > earlier. Do not respond to end users in this manner. They do not >> > deserve to be treated like this. We don't either, but their anger is >> > just, only not justly directed. You however have no right to be angry >> > about it, since it is not affecting you at all. >> >> > I spent more time today thinking about this one thing than anything >> > else. I have a six month old son who is better behaved than you are on >> > this list. I'm not going to sit here and baby sit you, you need to be >> > an adult here. I also want this thread to end, unless the original >> > poster requires more assistance. However, since this thread was >> > derailed, I've already started a direct email with him so he doesn't >> > have to continue to deal with this. >> >> > I have concluded that this is not acceptable behavior to tolerate for >> > these issues. If you respond to another user in a sarcastic manner >> > such as this, I will ban you. If you continue to make me have to >> > respond to you after being very clear in this email, I will also ban >> > you. If you choose to email me or any other member of the Growl >> > project directly to complain about this, I will ban you. Basically, >> > drop the issue, move on, and don't be a prick in the future, and we're >> > all set. >> >> > As far as I'm concerned, this should not have been how this user was >> > handled. You made us look bad. You need to own up to that, and learn >> > from it. I don't want to think about it anymore. >> >> > -- >> >> > Nicholas J A Sanders >> > ___________________ >> > semiotek >> >> > +44 [0]7092 153 409 >> > [email protected] >> > ___________________ >> >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> > "Growl Discuss" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [email protected]. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> >http://groups.google.com/group/growldiscuss?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Growl Discuss" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/growldiscuss?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Growl Discuss" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/growldiscuss?hl=en.
