On Saturday, January 7, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Phat Bob wrote:

> 
> 
> On 7 Jan 2012, at 15:08, smajor <[email protected] 
> (mailto:[email protected])> wrote:
> 
> > Firstly, I'm not one of the devs. I'm like you - a long time user.
> 
> And I am...
> 
> > 
> > In order for Growl to be in the App Store, the devs had to make may of the 
> > changes you're not happy with.  Apple is very picky about what can and 
> > cannot go into the App Store.  
> 
> So, why put it in the App Store at all?  Why change the tried and tested 
> Prefs Pane which all(?) users understood?
> 

A lot of users didn't understand prefpanes. As evidenced by people searching 
their file systems for Growl for years, and not finding it, and then contacting 
us. This was exacerbated by multiple applications installing Growl without even 
telling them about it, or reinstalling Growl when the user removed it. We were 
having to instruct people as to where Growl was, what a prefpane is, and oh ya, 
go dig around in ~/Library to fix things. That's a broken interaction. A lot of 
people actually like this change. Myself included obviously, since I have to 
answer a ton less questions about where Growl is. Users know since they can 
find Growl easily now. 

You may not like the fact that Growl is an application, but that doesn't stop 
the fact that this change solves real problems. The real change here is that 
you have to go to a different place to configure Growl, and that's about it. 
The side affect is that some applications aren't talking to Growl currently, 
but that can be alleviated by Growl Version Detective and then contacting that 
application's developer asking them to update.
 
> 
> Also, moving to being an app is one of the key things the API broke on.
> 

Unfortunately true, but a simple fix.
 
> > Preference Panes aren't allowed nor are mail bundles - which is why I 
> > assume GrowlMail is likely a separate download now and, you'll note, not 
> > available via the App Store.
> > 
> > Frankly, I'm amazed Apple even allows Growl (and Hardware Growler) to be 
> > there as an application that has a faceless mode (no menubar or dock icon) 
> > - it'd make much more sense to allow Pref Panes!
> 
> Sadly, if Apple had blocked Growl, it'd have probably been a Good Thing as it 
> turns out.
> 
To be frank, it actually wouldn't have, since it was either that or I would 
have shuttered the project. 
 
> 
> > 
> > 1.3.x has it's quirks, but each update fixes tons of issues.  
> 
> Please define "tons".  1.3.2 added two new displays which broke Growl when 
> run on case-sensitive filesystems.
> 

And fixed other problems. We didn't catch the case sensitive file system issue, 
but that's just how it is. Software gets released, something is found, you fix 
it, you move on. Case sensitive file systems have been added to our testing 
checklist before going out to beta testers. We have it tested in 1.3.3 beta 1, 
I'm working on the next beta tonight, and we'll go from there.

Unfortunately since our previous beta system did not yield very many people 
actually providing feedback, our testing matrix is pretty slim. The new private 
beta list actually provides a lot more useful feedback, which is great. It just 
seems that not a lot of people are using case sensitive file systems. We added 
a few people who run case sensitive file systems to our list as well, so that's 
good.

The ironic thing is that we had a lot more people beta testing previously, but 
a lot less good feedback. So this change is pretty positive.
 
> > I bet 1.3.3 will be even better.  I do miss access to the beta, or rather 
> > the way that the "old" version had a page to download it if you knew where 
> > to look.  
> 
> 
> This, in my opinion, is where the devs completely dropped the ball.  Even if 
> all the move to application in App Store really was necessary, a build up to 
> it via the website would have been very helpful - especially an FAQ, 
> Knowledge Base or at least a "don't install if you are running apps x, y and 
> z" warning.
> 
Unfortunately Apple set the sandboxing deadline to November, so we had to rush 
everything to have enough time to put out a second release that was not 
sandboxed. Then they moved their sandboxing deadline. I've been adding items to 
the website continually since then and working towards improving things. 
However, nothing is perfect. If you have specific positive constructive 
feedback, I'd be glad to listen. I've been adding/moving/subtracting from the 
website based on feedback so far since 1.3 shipped, and will continue to do so.
 
> 
> > While messy and unorganized in terms of bug reports, I bet that "beta 
> > access" caught many bugs before a release that most users saw.
> 
> Its admirable that you want to support the devs but I spent a number of 
> unpaid weekends trying to get 1.3.1 working before eventually rolling it off 
> 50 machines and putting 1.2.2 back  - during which time putting up with the 
> abuse and heckling from my users.
> 

I'm surprised that you roll out any software at all to your users without first 
testing it. I highly recommend testing software with known configurations 
before pushing it out to any number of end users, and I'm sure that others 
would repeat what I'm saying here. It's unfortunate that you spent that time on 
it, but I think my suggestion of testing beforehand will really help with 
regards to getting things as ready as possible before pushing software to your 
end users. This is more just general advice since I've been where you are 
before, and switching to this methodology for all software really does save 
time, energy and frustration on both your part and your end users part.


 
> 
> I guess that'll teach me to use "free" software then?  Oh, hang on, 1.3.x is 
> the paid for version isn't it? :)
> 
> 
> 


 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "Growl Discuss" group.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/growldiscuss/-/SowNbVBtTzwJ.
> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] 
> > (mailto:[email protected]).
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> > [email protected] 
> > (mailto:[email protected]).
> > For more options, visit this group at 
> > http://groups.google.com/group/growldiscuss?hl=en.
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Growl Discuss" group.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] 
> (mailto:[email protected]).
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> [email protected] 
> (mailto:[email protected]).
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/growldiscuss?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Growl Discuss" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/growldiscuss?hl=en.

Reply via email to