On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 3:46 PM, Onno Meyer <[email protected]> wrote: > DataPacRat wrote >> These "Pigeons" are deployed in swarms on the order of >> 10-50,000, which fly around a target zone, look, network with each >> other and with fire control; and when they're assigned a target, go >> and explode themselves at it. > > A swarm would be 30 to 150 million $ or thereabouts. You can > get many iron bombs for that much money. Smart bombs are the > way to get more hits with fewer weapons, usually ...
"Usually". :) If you like, you can think of these as being meant to be smarter-than-smart-bombs... >> What flaws do you see, how >> would you build it better? If a generic (or your favorite) TL6-9 tank, >> mecha, battlesuit, or whatnot is faced with a flock of Pigeons of a >> similar total cost, which would likely finish the other off first, and >> what can be done to improve either side's chances? > > OK, trying to blow holes into the concept and the design: Which I appreciate. I'm responding to some points mostly to mention that I have, actually, thought of some of the same things, and just did a really poor job of explaining myself. > * If you introduce new weapon systems on a large scale, sooner > or later people will introduce countermeasures. Your pigeons > are terribly fragile -- how about FAE airbursts to kick them > around? > > * What happens to them in the area of a beehive round? Note to self, to add to description: When possible, before deploying Pigeons, use artillery to clear the area of opposing artillery. > * Your damage calculation seems to be missing the S multiplier. > I get 40d(5). At TL9, a serious MBT might be all but immune > against that attack, and even if a few hits penetrate there > won't be much after-armor damage left. <forehead-slap> Okay, that's an entirely egregious error on my part. (The first payload I calculated was simple HE, and when I rebuilt that, well, I messed up.) Note to self: When possible, before deploying pigeons, use artillery to clear the area of opposing MBTs. Pigeons are not designed to be used against them, especially unsupported, any more than unsupported infantry are. > * A TL9 point defense system should be able to fry many of > them before it gets saturated. How expensive is such a point defense system to build? Is there a sample of one somewhere in the archives? > * The LLTV is pretty myopic, by ATGM standards. A battlesuit > with instant chameleon could be invisible until the pigeon > stumbles into it. The LLTV is intended as a cheap anti-crash sensor to be used more during the final approach before self-destruction; most actual detecting of the enemy is meant to be done using the flock's varied sensor modules (which I might try having them jettison before making an attack, to try to save money by recovering them). Note to self: In next description, include some actual sensor modules and make clear the uses thereof. >> Comm: Radio, short range: .25 lb, .005 cf. $50, rng 10 miles. Scrambler: >> $500. > > Even with a scrambler, what happens if there are high-powered > jammers around? Immediate result: Part of the Flock's network goes down. (This is, in fact, an important area of vulnerability for future story purposes.) Note to self: When possible, before deploying pigeons, use artillery to clear the area of opposing radio jammers. Other note to self, for a common-sense counter-counter measure: Include a module containing radio-direction-finder to locate jammers, and a laser-comm to communicate that info to... somebody. >> Computer: Small, Robot. 2 lbs, 0.04 cf, $1k, C2. >> Program: Computer Navigation: C2, $500. >> Computer: Tiny, Dedicated: 0.25 lb, 0.005 cf, $40, C1. >> Program: Datalink: C1, $400. > > No tactics skill at all, just the IQ 5 brain. Don't expect any > coordinated attacks, then. Note to self: Include explicit mention that most direction is meant to be supplied by a command base. Try building such base into a 40' standardized cargo container to include in description. >> Battery: TL8 Rechargeable Power Cell, 36,363.6 kWs: 4 lb, 0.04 cf, $400 > > Technically legal under the Vehicles rules, but classic GURPS > had 20-lb. E power cells, 5-lb. D cells, etc. The VE formula > fits nicely for E cells, but not for D or smaller cells. I'm actually a little hesitant to use power cells at all, remembering some previous discussion about their realism. I just didn't have my Vehicles Expansions books handy to refer to for which variants are the harder-SF ones. >> Total Structural Area: 3.786 > > Only if you use the optional formula. The table gives higher > areas. Usually, I pretty much ignore the table. > If you discard the swarm tactics -- a datalink doesn't make > a collective intelligence -- what you have here is one step > beyond the LOCAAS. Even slower, even weaker, but much less > expensive. If the USAF thinks about it, odds are that the > idea makes at least some sense :-) > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Cost_Autonomous_Attack_System Ah, that's probably what inspired the original authour to create the Pigeon description in the first place. :) Thank you for your time, -- DataPacRat lu .iacu'i ma krinu lo du'u .ei mi krici la'e di'u li'u traji lo ka vajni fo lo preti _______________________________________________ GurpsNet-L mailing list <[email protected]> http://mail.sjgames.com/mailman/listinfo/gurpsnet-l
