Better yet, drop Eudora...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Belle" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Window-eyes good or bad?
Better yet, I'll use a screen-reader that can handle the job.
Thanks for the tips though.
At 02:49 PM 7/28/2009, you wrote:
Chris this depends a lot on the OSM which will be different between WE and
JFW and different on different machines. You of all people know of and
use many work arounds so for now why not do your editing in Notepad and
then paste the contents of what you've edited in to Eudora when you are
done? This will give you the complete accuracy of editing and it only
adds a few copy and paste key strokes. This gets your problems solved
today and doesn't force you to wait on OSM improvements from us.
At 10:03 PM 7/27/2009, you wrote:
Well, to be sure, the editing has gotten better.
But still some problems in the body of the message, which I guess isn't a
true edit.
but how does jaws manage to always get it right?
And eudora won't read properly when say selecting a line of text, or
trying to clip out a url, you can't read what your selecting.
But no, I haven't had any trouble in the subject or from and to fields.
At 11:55 AM 7/27/2009, you wrote:
Chris, Eudora only uses true edit controls for to, subject, bcc, and cc
so I would expect these to always read correctly. As for issues that
you claim are still existing in Notepad and when renaming files these
are true edits and we are no longer seeing these in 7.1. If you are
then a specific example of how to duplicate them would be helpful.
At 12:15 PM 7/25/2009, you wrote:
Let's see pros and cons.
I'll start with my first love window-eyes.
prose
1.
Works well out of the box with many apps providing one learns their
screen reader reading keys, and uses the mouse movement and clicking
keys.
2.
Has no invasive and unreliable copy protection scheme.
Allows one to install on any number of machines without having to deal
with internet licensing management.
3.
Costs a bit less than jaws.
4.
Has very good beginner level and intermediate tech support.
5.
Allows one to create customizable environments or setfiles without
having to be a programmer or scripter which is difficult and not
something the average person can do, but setfiles are made with
selections from a menu driven interface and are very powerful.
cons
1.
Does not always accurately work in edit modes with many programms,
eudora, notepad, rename dialogues, etc.
Work has been done to improve this but as of 7.1, errors can still
happen.
2.
Does not accurately work at all times with selecting items, or
identifying what's selected.
Inevitably, when window-eyes won't read text that's selected or an edit
field properly, jaws almost always will read it correctly.
3.
Scripting is very powerful and potentially a huge shot in the arm for
window-eyes but as of now there are no real productivity apps available
and many of the scripts are buggy and don't work well, or they crash
window-eyes.
4.
The scripting re-write of window-eyes has de-stabilized it a bit, it's
getting better but still has a way to go to become the most stable
screen-reader on the planet as one of the founders is so fond of
advertising 'grin'.
Ok now for the other mistress I'm forced to have congress with let's
talk about jaws.
prose.
1.
Since they were first in the nt world, and been at scripting longer,
there are many more high level apps that work better with jaws.
My wife says office works better with jaws for her, and my experience
bears this out.
2.
Very good support for editing and selection and accuracy with eudora
and notepad and for jaws 9, not the latest jaws, but for the version
I'm working with is extremely stable.
3.
Very good support for music apps like sonar, and third party plug-ins,
if one is going to be a recording engineer or musician using music
technology, recording, scoring, any of that kind of thing, and if one
wants screen-reader technology to support this in anything approaching
modern standards, jaws is your only choice.
4.
A larger company with more programmers and resources to throw at a
problem, and many more users than window-eyes.
Ok cons for jaws.
1.
Has a terrible copy protection scheme which can go south on you just
for doing simple things like upgrade memory, or even plugging in your
sound card or upgrading firmware.
Further more to add insult to injury, because of how the servers work,
one might get stuck on the weekend and have to wait till offices open
up to get authorized.
This in my oppinion only aggrivates the customers, and leads to smart
folks pirating jaws more and just makes it harder for the honest folk
who need to use their tools but get burned by the heavy handed way fs
operates.
2.
Tech support is a bit less personal and not as readily available.
3.
Jaws is picky about video displays, not as much as it used to be but
still a consideration as with any screen-reader, but a bit more so with
jaws.
4.
Costs more.
5.
For basic applications right out of the box, with no scripting
involved, jaws doesn't work as well as window-eyes.
If one knows the screen-reader one can open up the defaults a bit, but
over all, I think window-eyes still tends to show a bit more of what's
actually on the screen over-all.
Ok, these are my subjective, objective takes on the two major players,
take it for what it's worth.
Your mileage may vary.
At 09:03 AM 7/25/2009, you wrote:
Hi Blake:
It seems that this debate has been going on forever, but if you are
looking for a consensus among the blind community, you won't get one.
I, along with most others on this list can go on and on about the
things we like about Window-eyes as compared to JAWS, but when I
proclaimed the virtues of Windoweyes over JAWS on another list, I got
an earful from a few of the JAWS users on that list. The moral of the
story is that you need to try Window-eyes yourself, and see what you
think. In my opinion, you will want to stick with it. I used to be a
JAWS user and I switched to Window-eyes and I haven't regretted it for
a moment.
Kevin Huber
----- Original Message ----- From: Blake
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:45 AM
Subject: Window-eyes good or bad?
Some say that window eyes is a million times better than JFW, some
say the other way around. What does everyone
(and I mean everybody) think about this one?
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