What does the "osm" refer to? What is osm and how does that come into play concerning screen readers?
-----Original Message----- From: David Tanner [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:24 PM To: [email protected]; Chris Belle Subject: Re: Window-eyes good or bad? Better yet, drop Eudora... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Belle" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:30 PM Subject: Re: Window-eyes good or bad? > Better yet, I'll use a screen-reader that can handle the job. > > Thanks for the tips though. > > > At 02:49 PM 7/28/2009, you wrote: >>Chris this depends a lot on the OSM which will be different between WE and >>JFW and different on different machines. You of all people know of and >>use many work arounds so for now why not do your editing in Notepad and >>then paste the contents of what you've edited in to Eudora when you are >>done? This will give you the complete accuracy of editing and it only >>adds a few copy and paste key strokes. This gets your problems solved >>today and doesn't force you to wait on OSM improvements from us. >> >> >> >>At 10:03 PM 7/27/2009, you wrote: >>>Well, to be sure, the editing has gotten better. >>> >>>But still some problems in the body of the message, which I guess isn't a >>>true edit. >>> >>>but how does jaws manage to always get it right? >>> >>>And eudora won't read properly when say selecting a line of text, or >>>trying to clip out a url, you can't read what your selecting. >>> >>>But no, I haven't had any trouble in the subject or from and to fields. >>> >>> >>> At 11:55 AM 7/27/2009, you wrote: >>>>Chris, Eudora only uses true edit controls for to, subject, bcc, and cc >>>>so I would expect these to always read correctly. As for issues that >>>>you claim are still existing in Notepad and when renaming files these >>>>are true edits and we are no longer seeing these in 7.1. If you are >>>>then a specific example of how to duplicate them would be helpful. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>At 12:15 PM 7/25/2009, you wrote: >>>>>Let's see pros and cons. >>>>> >>>>>I'll start with my first love window-eyes. >>>>>prose >>>>>1. >>>>>Works well out of the box with many apps providing one learns their >>>>>screen reader reading keys, and uses the mouse movement and clicking >>>>>keys. >>>>>2. >>>>>Has no invasive and unreliable copy protection scheme. >>>>>Allows one to install on any number of machines without having to deal >>>>>with internet licensing management. >>>>>3. >>>>>Costs a bit less than jaws. >>>>>4. >>>>>Has very good beginner level and intermediate tech support. >>>>>5. >>>>>Allows one to create customizable environments or setfiles without >>>>>having to be a programmer or scripter which is difficult and not >>>>>something the average person can do, but setfiles are made with >>>>>selections from a menu driven interface and are very powerful. >>>>> >>>>>cons >>>>>1. >>>>>Does not always accurately work in edit modes with many programms, >>>>>eudora, notepad, rename dialogues, etc. >>>>>Work has been done to improve this but as of 7.1, errors can still >>>>>happen. >>>>>2. >>>>>Does not accurately work at all times with selecting items, or >>>>>identifying what's selected. >>>>>Inevitably, when window-eyes won't read text that's selected or an edit >>>>>field properly, jaws almost always will read it correctly. >>>>>3. >>>>>Scripting is very powerful and potentially a huge shot in the arm for >>>>>window-eyes but as of now there are no real productivity apps available >>>>>and many of the scripts are buggy and don't work well, or they crash >>>>>window-eyes. >>>>>4. >>>>>The scripting re-write of window-eyes has de-stabilized it a bit, it's >>>>>getting better but still has a way to go to become the most stable >>>>>screen-reader on the planet as one of the founders is so fond of >>>>>advertising 'grin'. >>>>> >>>>>Ok now for the other mistress I'm forced to have congress with let's >>>>>talk about jaws. >>>>> >>>>>prose. >>>>>1. >>>>>Since they were first in the nt world, and been at scripting longer, >>>>>there are many more high level apps that work better with jaws. >>>>>My wife says office works better with jaws for her, and my experience >>>>>bears this out. >>>>>2. >>>>>Very good support for editing and selection and accuracy with eudora >>>>>and notepad and for jaws 9, not the latest jaws, but for the version >>>>>I'm working with is extremely stable. >>>>>3. >>>>>Very good support for music apps like sonar, and third party plug-ins, >>>>>if one is going to be a recording engineer or musician using music >>>>>technology, recording, scoring, any of that kind of thing, and if one >>>>>wants screen-reader technology to support this in anything approaching >>>>>modern standards, jaws is your only choice. >>>>>4. >>>>>A larger company with more programmers and resources to throw at a >>>>>problem, and many more users than window-eyes. >>>>> >>>>>Ok cons for jaws. >>>>>1. >>>>>Has a terrible copy protection scheme which can go south on you just >>>>>for doing simple things like upgrade memory, or even plugging in your >>>>>sound card or upgrading firmware. >>>>>Further more to add insult to injury, because of how the servers work, >>>>>one might get stuck on the weekend and have to wait till offices open >>>>>up to get authorized. >>>>>This in my oppinion only aggrivates the customers, and leads to smart >>>>>folks pirating jaws more and just makes it harder for the honest folk >>>>>who need to use their tools but get burned by the heavy handed way fs >>>>>operates. >>>>>2. >>>>>Tech support is a bit less personal and not as readily available. >>>>>3. >>>>>Jaws is picky about video displays, not as much as it used to be but >>>>>still a consideration as with any screen-reader, but a bit more so with >>>>>jaws. >>>>>4. >>>>>Costs more. >>>>>5. >>>>>For basic applications right out of the box, with no scripting >>>>>involved, jaws doesn't work as well as window-eyes. >>>>>If one knows the screen-reader one can open up the defaults a bit, but >>>>>over all, I think window-eyes still tends to show a bit more of what's >>>>>actually on the screen over-all. >>>>> >>>>>Ok, these are my subjective, objective takes on the two major players, >>>>>take it for what it's worth. >>>>> >>>>>Your mileage may vary. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At 09:03 AM 7/25/2009, you wrote: >>>>>> Hi Blake: >>>>>>It seems that this debate has been going on forever, but if you are >>>>>>looking for a consensus among the blind community, you won't get one. >>>>>>I, along with most others on this list can go on and on about the >>>>>>things we like about Window-eyes as compared to JAWS, but when I >>>>>>proclaimed the virtues of Windoweyes over JAWS on another list, I got >>>>>>an earful from a few of the JAWS users on that list. The moral of the >>>>>>story is that you need to try Window-eyes yourself, and see what you >>>>>>think. In my opinion, you will want to stick with it. I used to be a >>>>>>JAWS user and I switched to Window-eyes and I haven't regretted it for >>>>>>a moment. >>>>>>Kevin Huber >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Blake >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:45 AM >>>>>> Subject: Window-eyes good or bad? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Some say that window eyes is a million times better than JFW, some >>>>>> say the other way around. What does everyone >>>>>> (and I mean everybody) think about this one? >>>>>> >>>>>>If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >>>>>>sender only. 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If your reply would benefit others on the list and >>>your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending >>>your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >>> >>>All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and >>>can be searched through and sorted using the search >>>form at the bottom of the page. >>>If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to >>>[email protected] and include leave gw-info in the body of the >>>message. >> >>-- >>Michael D. Lawler >>Voice 260-489-3671 >>Fax 260-489-2608 >>Internet mailto:[email protected] >>web http://www.gwmicro.com >>ftp ftp://ftp.gwmicro.com >>GW Micro, Inc., >>Development Liaison and Technical Support Supervisor >> >>If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >>sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and >>your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending >>your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >> >>All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and >>can be searched through and sorted using the search >>form at the bottom of the page. >>If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to >>[email protected] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message. > > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original > sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and > your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending > your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and > can be searched through and sorted using the search > form at the bottom of the page. > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to > [email protected] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message. > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and can be searched through and sorted using the search form at the bottom of the page. If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to [email protected] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message. If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and can be searched through and sorted using the search form at the bottom of the page. If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to [email protected] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message.
