Hey Alex
How realistic is HIMS products being upgraded to c e 6?
Would it need for example new hardware, that is, current
note-takers couldn't have c e 6?
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Hall <[email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date sent: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 22:44:44 -0400
Subject: Re: [GWN] O/T Upgrade to Linux
So, what it comes down to is this:
1. Windows Mobile is not the same as Windows CE. CE is used by
most
notetakers (SenseNotes, brailleNotes, and PacMates). However, hw
and
hims have custom interfaces running on top of ce (keysoft for hw,
and
the Sense interface for hims). So, saying that Windows Mobile 7
is due
to be released soon is true, but has no bearing on the Sense
products
since wm7 is still based on CE6. What hims users want is an
upgrade to
ce6, like hw did in the bn apex (released late last year).
2. A port to Linux may be possible, but may be more difficult
than a
port to ce6 (speculation on my part). Either one would solve the
process limit, but may not immediately introduce new features.
Just as
with the apex, ce6 has a lot more potential than ce4 or ce5, but
that
potential must be realized by the developers. The apex, even
though it
runs ce6 compared to previous generations' ce4.2, currently does
nothing different than any other bn, except that it runs faster,
but
that is a result of hardware, not software. HW must now take
advantage
of the new opportunities, just as hims would if they were to
upgrade.
3. A developer kit is also possible, but not an automatic
result. Hims
could still hide their interfaces to hardware, namely the way
they
capture braille input and display braille or speak messages.
Without
these components, nothing will run. Of course, they could also
either
open everything up or write a converter so that most apps would
run
just fine... Who knows?
Anyway, there's my take on things, sorry in advance for any
inaccuracies.
On 7/18/10, Joseph Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,
That's a good observation. Few things:
In my thoughts, Braille Sense family under Linux would allow
more than
developers to contribute applications. Using the open source
advantage, HIMS
might come up with more useful apps, provide a useful IDE that
will run
under Braille Sense itself and other things could be done. The
only
potential worry would be a slight possibility of malware
floating around the
Sense family as a result, but if the vulnerability that this
malware targets
is known, the programmers could try and come up with a security
update
within days to fix this issue. Other than that, I believe it
could be done,
but the compatibility needs to be addressed between the "old
code" and "new
interface" - as we have seen somewhere else before.
As for Windows Mobile interface, it is essentially an user
interface that
runs on top of Windows CE kernel. Windows Mobile 6 runs under
Windows CE
5.2, and Windows Mobile 7 is rumored to run under Windows CE 6.0
R3. WM7 is
no longer called Windows Mobile by Microsoft's definitions now -
it is now
called Windows Phone 7, due to be released later this year. As
for
accessibility of this interface from blindness perspective, I
expect the
reports to come out by end of this year or early next year.
However, the
development of Android and other embedded OS family is giving MS
a major
worry though.
In connection with Braille Sense, we are dealing with a Windows
Mobile like
interface that runs on top of Windows CE 5.0 kernel. On the far
below layer
is the hardware itself, followed by the firmware for the
hardware, then the
operating system, drivers and finally, the user programs. The
Braille Sense
suite is (if I understood the thing right) composed of mini
programs (or
modules) that are interconnected by a Task Manager program that
provides the
program Menu list. Each of the "programs" is either a link to a
particular
executable for that program, or a jump instruction (or a switch
statement)
that will jump to that particular moduole of the Sense suite.
From what I
read on this list, it appears to be the former case. In Korean
builds, the
presence of "menu Manager" that blocks certain programs suggests
that the
Sense suite is composed of multiple .exe executables that are
connected with
the OS to provide multitasking. This is also the reason why
there is a seven
program limit on the Sense product due to the fact that Windows
CE 5.0
limits running up to thirty-two programs or processes at once.
If we count
the number of possible processes that will start when the
Braille Sense
resets - nk.exe, gwes.exe, services.exe, filesys.exe and so on,
we can come
up with potential slots for running twenty programs or less.
However, if we
add this variable to our operating equation, there would exist
yet another
limit that Windows CE 6.0 solved: how to manage memory better,
especially
virtual memory?
Thus, depending on the answer to our "big question above" -
whether Sense
suite is composed of multiple .exe files or just single
executable, we can
come up with two or three "unforeseen" and "hidden" limitations:
* If the Sense suite is composed of multiple .exe files, we can
reach a
potential limit of running less and less programs when we use
more
"services" and processes, such as using Media Player, Internet
Explorer
(when the web browser programs calls it to do its bidding) and
so forth.
Thus when the maximum is reached, the Sense interface (mostly
towards OS
calls) will alert the user that there is no more programs to run
(in order
to avoid using all 32 process slots, if I understood the thing
correctly).
* If the suite is composed only of one file, there is a risk of
running low
on memory, specifically virtual memory (as Windows CE 5.0 and
earlier
supports only 32 MB of virtual memory). All user programs,
including Sense
suite, shares a common 2 GB of user addresses virtual memory
location which
is divided into equal chunks of virtual memory size.--Source:
Microsoft
article on architecture of Windows CE 5.0 versus Windows
Embedded CE 6.0.
Thus, too much use of memory by one program would slow down the
response of
a program.
The universal integral here is memory management issues with
tight memory
space, using some parts of RAM for storage and so forth. Both
increasing and
decreasing RAM proportions between running programs and storage
has
probability of a system locking up or not responding to user
requests.
Increasing RAM would mean less and less download and storage
size, and
decreasing memory means that programs would not have space to
store data and
its code.
If you want, I'll forward your notes to Blind Programming list
so that more
experienced guys can answer your queries regarding this one.
I'm just a
student interested in these sort of things... If I lost you, my
apologies...
Cheers,
joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: erik burggraaf [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 4:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [GWN] O/T Upgrade to Linux
Hi Joe,
I don't have experience with the products you mentioned, but I
would be
hugely in favour of a linux port to the BSP.
The vaunted new upgrade to braillesense did not usher in windows
mobile 6,
and even if it did, windows mobile 7 is right around the corner,
and the
roomers are as bad as it is possible to be. Winmobile 5 is
painfully far
behind the hardware curve to begin with.
They could easily keep the interface more or less the same from
a user
perspective, only add features that users want such as open
development kits
and wireless connectivity upgrades.
After some heavy duty research one of my prospective clients has
nearly
chosen the apex over the braille sense, and I can't honestly
gainsay her,
even though I love the braille sense and really believe it's a
good product.
It is just simply losing it's edge, and maybe linux firmware
would
revitalize it.
Best,
Erik Burggraaf
User support consultant,
Website: http://www.erik-burggraaf.com
Toll-free: 888-255-5194
On 2010-07-18, at 6:39 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:
Hello all,
So, this post is purely brainstorming. If you're more into
practical,
please delete now. *grin*
I was just wondering, and this would be a great question for
Joseph, how
feasible it would be to switch the BSP to Linux? I'm curious
because
yesterday I came across information about the Braille+, and even
though it
is a PDA in the truest sense of the word in that I don't think
the
manufacturer meant for consumers to write long documents or do
extensive
web
surfing, it does boast features that have been previously
recommended for
the Sense products like an RSS reader. It also features some
cool little
features like an Internet radio tuner, but best of all, the
platform is
open
source. Though it seems people have mostly developed games for
the
product,
it's feasible that developers could write financial aps,
enhanced word
processing, etc.
Am I off my rocker here? I don't know how much success the Alva
product
had
among consumers, but it seems like something somewhat comparable
to the
Android phenomenon of a user-driven development. I wonder if
switching
out
Windows CE for Linux would be a terrible inconvenience.
At any rate, just a thought, and if anyone has had experience
with the
Icon
or Braille+, please drop me a note off-list. I'd love to ask
you a few
questions.
Best,
Joe
"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam
Ewing
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06:35:00
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Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
[email protected]; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
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