Hi, Even if PM runs under WM6, it still runs under Windows CE 5.2 (which is the very thing we are talking about here). Thus, it would lok well in terms of user interface graphics, it would have stability issues underneath. Cheers, Joseph
-----Original Message----- From: Jackie Cairns [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 2:09 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [GWN] O/T Upgrade to Linux Hi Pac Mate runs under Windows Mobile 6. The only two note-takers in the equasion out there as far as I'm concerned are the offerings from Humanware and Hims, the latter being my preference. Kind Regards, Jackie Cairns J&M Work-Ability [email protected] www.work-ability.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Alex Hall [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 19 July 2010 03:45 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GWN] O/T Upgrade to Linux So, what it comes down to is this: 1. Windows Mobile is not the same as Windows CE. CE is used by most notetakers (SenseNotes, brailleNotes, and PacMates). However, hw and hims have custom interfaces running on top of ce (keysoft for hw, and the Sense interface for hims). So, saying that Windows Mobile 7 is due to be released soon is true, but has no bearing on the Sense products since wm7 is still based on CE6. What hims users want is an upgrade to ce6, like hw did in the bn apex (released late last year). 2. A port to Linux may be possible, but may be more difficult than a port to ce6 (speculation on my part). Either one would solve the process limit, but may not immediately introduce new features. Just as with the apex, ce6 has a lot more potential than ce4 or ce5, but that potential must be realized by the developers. The apex, even though it runs ce6 compared to previous generations' ce4.2, currently does nothing different than any other bn, except that it runs faster, but that is a result of hardware, not software. HW must now take advantage of the new opportunities, just as hims would if they were to upgrade. 3. A developer kit is also possible, but not an automatic result. Hims could still hide their interfaces to hardware, namely the way they capture braille input and display braille or speak messages. Without these components, nothing will run. Of course, they could also either open everything up or write a converter so that most apps would run just fine... Who knows? Anyway, there's my take on things, sorry in advance for any inaccuracies. On 7/18/10, Joseph Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > That's a good observation. Few things: > In my thoughts, Braille Sense family under Linux would allow more than > developers to contribute applications. Using the open source > advantage, HIMS might come up with more useful apps, provide a useful > IDE that will run under Braille Sense itself and other things could be > done. The only potential worry would be a slight possibility of > malware floating around the Sense family as a result, but if the > vulnerability that this malware targets is known, the programmers > could try and come up with a security update within days to fix this > issue. Other than that, I believe it could be done, but the > compatibility needs to be addressed between the "old code" and "new interface" - as we have seen somewhere else before. > As for Windows Mobile interface, it is essentially an user interface > that runs on top of Windows CE kernel. Windows Mobile 6 runs under > Windows CE 5.2, and Windows Mobile 7 is rumored to run under Windows > CE 6.0 R3. WM7 is no longer called Windows Mobile by Microsoft's > definitions now - it is now called Windows Phone 7, due to be released > later this year. As for accessibility of this interface from blindness > perspective, I expect the reports to come out by end of this year or > early next year. However, the development of Android and other > embedded OS family is giving MS a major worry though. > In connection with Braille Sense, we are dealing with a Windows Mobile > like interface that runs on top of Windows CE 5.0 kernel. On the far > below layer is the hardware itself, followed by the firmware for the > hardware, then the operating system, drivers and finally, the user > programs. The Braille Sense suite is (if I understood the thing right) > composed of mini programs (or > modules) that are interconnected by a Task Manager program that > provides the program Menu list. Each of the "programs" is either a > link to a particular executable for that program, or a jump > instruction (or a switch statement) that will jump to that particular > moduole of the Sense suite. From what I read on this list, it appears > to be the former case. In Korean builds, the presence of "menu > Manager" that blocks certain programs suggests that the Sense suite is > composed of multiple .exe executables that are connected with the OS > to provide multitasking. This is also the reason why there is a seven > program limit on the Sense product due to the fact that Windows CE 5.0 > limits running up to thirty-two programs or processes at once. If we > count the number of possible processes that will start when the > Braille Sense resets - nk.exe, gwes.exe, services.exe, filesys.exe and > so on, we can come up with potential slots for running twenty programs > or less. However, if we add this variable to our operating equation, > there would exist yet another limit that Windows CE 6.0 solved: how to manage memory better, especially virtual memory? > Thus, depending on the answer to our "big question above" - whether > Sense suite is composed of multiple .exe files or just single > executable, we can come up with two or three "unforeseen" and "hidden" limitations: > * If the Sense suite is composed of multiple .exe files, we can reach > a potential limit of running less and less programs when we use more > "services" and processes, such as using Media Player, Internet > Explorer (when the web browser programs calls it to do its bidding) and so forth. > Thus when the maximum is reached, the Sense interface (mostly towards > OS > calls) will alert the user that there is no more programs to run (in > order to avoid using all 32 process slots, if I understood the thing correctly). > * If the suite is composed only of one file, there is a risk of > running low on memory, specifically virtual memory (as Windows CE 5.0 > and earlier supports only 32 MB of virtual memory). All user programs, > including Sense suite, shares a common 2 GB of user addresses virtual > memory location which is divided into equal chunks of virtual memory > size.--Source: Microsoft article on architecture of Windows CE 5.0 versus Windows Embedded CE 6.0. > Thus, too much use of memory by one program would slow down the > response of a program. > The universal integral here is memory management issues with tight > memory space, using some parts of RAM for storage and so forth. Both > increasing and decreasing RAM proportions between running programs and > storage has probability of a system locking up or not responding to user requests. > Increasing RAM would mean less and less download and storage size, and > decreasing memory means that programs would not have space to store > data and its code. > > If you want, I'll forward your notes to Blind Programming list so that > more experienced guys can answer your queries regarding this one. I'm > just a student interested in these sort of things... If I lost you, my apologies... > Cheers, > joseph > > -----Original Message----- > From: erik burggraaf [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 4:10 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [GWN] O/T Upgrade to Linux > > Hi Joe, > > I don't have experience with the products you mentioned, but I would > be hugely in favour of a linux port to the BSP. > > The vaunted new upgrade to braillesense did not usher in windows > mobile 6, and even if it did, windows mobile 7 is right around the > corner, and the roomers are as bad as it is possible to be. Winmobile > 5 is painfully far behind the hardware curve to begin with. > > They could easily keep the interface more or less the same from a user > perspective, only add features that users want such as open > development kits and wireless connectivity upgrades. > > After some heavy duty research one of my prospective clients has > nearly chosen the apex over the braille sense, and I can't honestly > gainsay her, even though I love the braille sense and really believe it's a good product. > It is just simply losing it's edge, and maybe linux firmware would > revitalize it. > > Best, > > Erik Burggraaf > User support consultant, > Website: http://www.erik-burggraaf.com > Toll-free: 888-255-5194 > > On 2010-07-18, at 6:39 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> So, this post is purely brainstorming. If you're more into >> practical, please delete now. *grin* >> >> I was just wondering, and this would be a great question for Joseph, >> how feasible it would be to switch the BSP to Linux? I'm curious >> because yesterday I came across information about the Braille+, and >> even though it is a PDA in the truest sense of the word in that I >> don't think the manufacturer meant for consumers to write long >> documents or do extensive > web >> surfing, it does boast features that have been previously recommended >> for the Sense products like an RSS reader. It also features some >> cool little features like an Internet radio tuner, but best of all, >> the platform is > open >> source. Though it seems people have mostly developed games for the > product, >> it's feasible that developers could write financial aps, enhanced >> word processing, etc. >> >> Am I off my rocker here? I don't know how much success the Alva >> product > had >> among consumers, but it seems like something somewhat comparable to >> the Android phenomenon of a user-driven development. I wonder if >> switching > out >> Windows CE for Linux would be a terrible inconvenience. >> >> At any rate, just a thought, and if anyone has had experience with >> the > Icon >> or Braille+, please drop me a note off-list. I'd love to ask you a >> few questions. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >> all."--Sam Ewing >> >> If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, visit: >> >> http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv >> > > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, visit: > > http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3013 - Release Date: > 07/18/10 06:35:00 > > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, visit: > > http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv > > -- Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from GMail website) [email protected]; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, visit: http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3014 - Release Date: 07/18/10 19:35:00 If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, visit: http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3013 - Release Date: 07/18/10 06:35:00 If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, visit: http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv
