My understanding so far is that the spoon busk was towards the latter half or even latter third of the 19th century. I am currently at work and have limited access to look it up but I might be completely wrong. "to assume is o make an ass between U and ME."
No carol, there is no "average" woman - perhaps I used the wrong terms. I was think more along the lines of encompassing more than one specific decade in terms of style, that can fit a modern woman's proportions (which are different from back then.) personally, I wish to avoid Goth styles. I'm not dismayed at Steampunk but would rather that style able to use my pattern instead of designing it specifically for them. Kathleen and Ann, In terms of "reinventing the wheel," I almost have to because I am aiming to commercially sell either the end result or the pattern, or both. Therefore I couldn't use a current working pattern because of copyright issues. I'm also looking at it more of going back to the original sources and basing it off that even if it closely resembles current working patterns. But I need some help in finding those primary sources. Lisa, I greatly appreciate your opinion of using gores to improve fit! . Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS Sent from my iPhone On Mar 24, 2011, at 7:42, Carol Kocian <aqua...@patriot.net> wrote: > > 19th century = 1800s, 1801 to 1900. The spoon busk was used in the 19th > century. The gores in the soft corset are used in 1820, which sounds like > "early" for the time span you are looking at. > > Early and late Victorian are different shapes. I don't know that there is an > average customer! > > There are, however, may women who wear corsets for steampunk (not as strict > for accuracy) and goth fashion (also no need for historic accuracy). Maybe > you are aiming for that market? But once you are talking about reenactors, I > consider them to be more interested in accuracy and the look of the dress > worn over the corset, so "generic" will only go so far. > > You might also want to look at longline bras and other such modern lingerie. > There have been garments, both mainstream and special-occasion, that have bra > cups built in. > > -Carol > > > On Mar 24, 2011, at 11:26 AM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > >> Which century are you researching?? I think you can perhaps start?with >> wikipedia if you don't have Waugh, yet. The spoon busk was quite before the >> 19th C. so it wouldn't be considered for the Victorian period anyway.? If >> you mean to be historical, I think the "wheel" has already been invented for >> the common man (woman). >> Kathleen, who has been there already >> . >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "michaeljdeib...@gmail.com" <michaeljdeib...@gmail.com> >> Sent 3/24/2011 7:10:43 AM >> To: "Historical Costume" <h-cost...@indra.com> >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questionsFirst, that book >> is one of the top ones on my wish list! Perhaps I can scavenge the money for >> it bow that I've a specific reason! >> While I'm aiming for Victorian, the style and shape will be geared more >> towards the "average customer" who really wouldn't care if it was early or >> late victorian. It's the hourglass shape, cinching in the waist, while >> providing support and lift and perhaps some cleavage (which would rarely >> been shown or desired to my knowledge in the days the style would be worn!) >> But even though I'm aiming for a general "dumb" wearer, I want to have the >> historical aspect influencing the corset. I hope I'm not contradicting >> myself! Dare I say that my vision is a corset that, with the use of >> different sized gores, be sewn to fit a wide range of sizes and be >> historical accurate enough for re-enactors to wear, but suitable for any >> woman to wear in place of a bra? Does that help any? >> I do know that I plan on using a straight busk not a spoon, so if my memory >> serves right, that puts me in the earlier eras... But you mentioned that >> gores didn't fully show up till the later eras... Is it possible to breed >> the two together and still work? Thus the research! >> Michael Deibert >> OAS AAS LLS >> Sent from my iPhone >> On Mar 24, 2011, at 6:45, Carol Kocian <aqua...@patriot.net> wrote: >>> Hi Michael, >>> >>> What era are you aiming for? Victoria was around for a long time and the >>> "ideal" shape changed through those decades. Gores first show up in the >>> softer corsets of the early 19thC. Having the right shape of the corset >>> makes a difference in the finished look of the outfit. >>> >>> My favorite book to start is Corsets & Crinolines by Norah Waugh. The >>> pattern drafts are taken from extant corsets, and it's easy to see how the >>> construction and shapes of the pieces affect the resulting shape of the >>> body. >>> >>> -Carol >>> >>> >>> On Mar 24, 2011, at 5:15 AM, Michael Deibert wrote: >>> >>>> Good morning everyone! >>>> >>>> I'm doing some research into corsets, and thought it best to start on here >>>> where many of you already have research. While I know a lot regarding >>>> corsets, I have two main focuses. >>>> >>>> The first is regarding corset patterns. I am hoping to develop a corset >>>> pattern and thus would like to be able to have as many corset patterns to >>>> base it off of as I can. While any corset pattern works, I am specifically >>>> hoping to find Victorian era corset patterns with hip and/or bust gores. >>>>> From the many companies out there currently selling commercial pattersn, >>>> there are few who focus on corsets with gores. I am looking at trying to >>>> simplify the process of grading for different sizes, and believe that there >>>> might be a way to accomplish this with gored patterns. So if any of you >>>> have >>>> or know of patterns that I can get, please direct me in that direction! >>>> (Remember copyright laws and direct me to where I can find things, rather >>>> than just copy and paste.) >>>> >>>> Second, the little research I've done so far indicates that during the >>>> Victorian eras, there were many corset patterns that used gores - yet many >>>> of the current commercial patterns focus on those without. Is there a >>>> reason >>>> for this that anyone might be aware of? Is it easier to fit without gores? >>>> Are gored patterns more difficult to make up? Any help in this direction is >>>> also a huge plus! >>>> >>>> Please don't shy away, the more I can accumulate, the better my final >>>> pattern shall be once it is ready! Thanks in advance! >>>> >>>> Michael Deibert >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume_______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
