On 20 Feb 2009, at 21:42, Owen Winkler wrote: > I suspect that a fuller log may surface with the noted parts intact
Attached is such a non-edited log (though, admittedly, emoticons are lost). I think this covers the entire discussion. -- Geoffrey Sneddon <http://gsnedders.com/> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/habari-dev -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
[02:41] ⢠arthus is regretting what he posted on -dev [02:41] arthus: ringmaster: none of this is meant as a personal attack, and reading it now it seems to come off that way, so I'm sorry [02:42] MellerTime (n=ch...@unaffiliated/mellertime) joined the chat room. [02:42] ringmaster: arthus, kiss my ass. [02:43] arthus: ringmaster: ... [02:43] ringmaster: Really, I've been discussing all day how I'm trying not to just tell you you suck, but I just don't give a damn any more. [02:44] arthus: fuck you, supposedly benevolent dictator [02:44] ringmaster: I don't commit your code because I often think it's bad, and I can't figure out how to be nice about it, so I say nothing, which is why I never personally review your code. If you think it's some conspiracy against you, so be it. I just don't care what you think. [02:44] MellerTime: [02:44] arthus: and I don't give a damn what you think any more [02:44] MellerTime: i miss all the fun... [02:44] MellerTime: you guys couldn't wait TWO MINUTES?! [02:45] arthus: since you're a god damn perfectionist who would never have a single feature done if he was left to his own devices [02:45] MellerTime: see, this is community [02:45] ⢠MellerTime drags rick_c and mikelietz into a group hug [02:45] ringmaster: arthus, no, I just don't like your code. Plain and simple. [02:45] arthus: the rest of you: bye, I'm sorry I won't be able to help anymore [02:46] arthus: since your dictator doesn't "like my code" [02:46] MellerTime: ringmaster: you are a perfectionist [02:46] arthus: ringmaster: and yet you can't even think of a good objection [02:46] miklb: I ain't got no dictator [02:46] arthus: beyond not liking it [02:46] MellerTime: miklb: i think you're supposed to make some kind of crude gesture when you say that [02:46] ringmaster: Everyone else in the project (well, except MellerTime) is telling you you've got other avenues, why are you persuing me? [02:46] arthus: I don't have other avenues [02:47] Morydd: arthus: calling ringmaster a dictator is a personal insult to me (and the others who take meritocracy seriously) [02:47] ringmaster: Ask any of the other committers to review your poor ass code. Maybe they'll commit it. I won't. Get over it. [02:47] arthus: Morydd: okay, I meant that he thinks of himself as a dictator [02:47] MellerTime: in all fairness, i did just voice very similar concerns earlier this week [02:48] arthus: ringmaster: I don't think it's a matter of my code [02:48] rick_c: arthus: i'd have to disagree with that [02:48] rick_c: re the dictator bit [02:48] arthus: otherwise you wouldn't let RandyWalker within a mile of commit access [02:48] MellerTime: we don't [02:48] arthus: I think it's more like you not liking me, for good reasons [02:48] arthus: MellerTime: then how is rust habitually committed? [02:48] MellerTime: it's not [02:48] MellerTime: you guys keep saying it like it's a weekly thing [02:49] MellerTime: one time [02:49] miklb: well, there was at least one other time, but that's not the point [02:49] miklb: if it was weekly, something more severe would have already taken place [02:49] arthus: ringmaster: well, as far as I know you're not supposed to have veto power over all contributions [02:49] miklb: and he doesn't [02:49] ringmaster: arthus, no, it really is the code. I often don't like your code, and I don't like how you present yourself when I say I don't like it. I'm sick of apologizing for your insistence on meeting my standards which you have recognized as beyond your reach. [02:49] arthus: yet it seems you do, since almost nothing gets into core which you don't approve of [02:49] Morydd: We keep bringing it up because it's funny and RandyWalker takes the joke well (most of the time) [02:50] arthus: I don't give a damn about ringmaster's unreachable standards [02:50] arthus: all I care about is Habar's standards [02:50] arthus: unfortunately, the 2 seem to be more and more the same [02:51] MellerTime: i would tend to agree [02:51] MellerTime: not that having high standards is in itself a bad thing by any means [02:51] ringmaster: That's great. Suggest an alternative. "Let you commit whatever crap code you want" is out. [02:51] arthus: it is when it means nothing gets committed [02:52] arthus: MellerTime: is all my code (or most of it) crap? [02:52] scoates: yeesh. [02:52] miklb: rick_c: so do you think instead of the introduction being the default tiddler, that there be a tiddler that links to skippy's stuff that is broken down into multiple tiddlers? [02:52] MellerTime: i have honestly never looked at most of your code [02:52] rick_c: hey, scoates. [02:52] scoates: I read ringmaster's post as "make sure you know what you're doing when you accept patches into trunk" [02:52] MellerTime: but i will say that i'd have written taxonomy classes by now if i thought i could implement them in a way that would be of satisfactory quality [02:52] arthus: ringmaster: you still can't even identify a reason my code is crap [02:53] MellerTime: miklb: is tiddler seriously a word they use? [02:53] miklb: MellerTime: yes [02:53] rick_c: miklb: no, though i think the introduction could be rewritten [02:53] miklb: tiddler == "post" for the lack of a better word [02:53] rick_c: MellerTime: these *are* tiddlers. [02:53] MellerTime: the introduction should be basic and contain links to the key pages i would thin [02:53] MellerTime: k [02:54] arthus: MellerTime: agreed [02:54] rick_c: as could the FAQ, [02:54] miklb: OK, so until someone is motivated to rewrite these things, how could we make the manual better with what we have? [02:54] MellerTime: add ponies [02:55] arthus: ponies makes everything better [02:55] arthus: except my code, since then the ponies just get stuck in the crap [02:55] scoates: I need to do some housekeeping: sarcasmic:~/svn$ ls -ld habari* | wc -l -> 11 [02:55] scoates: 11 habari checkouts. I fale. [02:56] ⢠miklb did some housekeeping himself today. But not 11, more like 6 [02:56] arthus: is there any way to mass-remove yourself as the owner of tickets? [02:56] miklb: on my local machine that is [02:57] ringmaster: arthus, just walk away if you're going to walk away. Other people will take ownership of things organizally without causing that thrash in the database. [02:57] scoates: who last touched the phpunit branch? caius? [02:57] arthus: ringmaster: no, that's disorganized [02:57] miklb: or michaeltwofish [02:57] rick_c: what about a menu on the lines of Introduction | User Manual | Developer Introduction | Theming | Plugins . [02:58] arthus: if I'm no longer the owner of tickets, I don't want to be marked as such [02:58] miklb: rick_c: and drop Install and upgrade and make that part of User manual? [02:58] rick_c: yes. [02:59] miklb: as well as FAQ? [02:59] arthus: ringmaster: are you planning to purge -extras of what you describe as crap too, or is meritocracy still safe there? [02:59] rick_c: there could well be two faqs, one aimed at users, one at developers [02:59] schnoodles: mailing list is going mad today [02:59] scoates: so, back to real work: does anyone object to breaking autoload out of index.php so that other (non-habari-proper) code can hook it? [02:59] miklb: something is in the water [03:00] scoates: specifically: the test cases [03:00] chrisjdavis ([email protected]) joined the chat room. [03:00] Morydd: arthus: I don't appreciate the implication that the other 20+ members of the PMC are not doing their jobs. [03:00] chrisjdavis ([email protected]) left the chat room. (Remote closed the connection) [03:00] arthus: Morydd: are they? [03:01] miklb: no, we are sitting around getting famous off of ringmaster's hard work [03:01] miklb: [03:01] rick_c: arthus: you're harming yourself more than anyone else [03:01] rick_c: miklb: can i have some fame, too? [03:01] arthus: rick_c: how so? I don't really give a damn, since ringmaster is kicking me out anyways [03:01] ringmaster: arthus, I'm personally done talking to you right now, if only because this conversation isn't productive even in resolving whatever it is you perceive as the problem. I think you've ruined any goodwill I had toward you with your email to -dev. If you want to leave the project, you don't need to do anything more, just walk. [03:02] rick_c: 1. you appear to be withdrawing yourself. 2. i was referring to the effect anger and hurt have on one long term. i'm a social worker. what do you expect? [03:02] Morydd: arthus: you have constantly accused the PMC of being untrustworthy. You've never believed that the meritocracy works. So, as we've said before, if you don't trust us you're going to assume anything we say can't be trusted either. There is nothing we can do to change that. [03:03] arthus: Morydd: I do believe meritocracy works and I do trust most of the PMC [03:03] arthus: but I do also think that meritocracy can give way to dictatorship without sufficient exercise of restraint
