Hi Les, While I agree that marketing certainly is something we can focus on, I'm not quite sure if I understand your points regarding meritocracy.
Valuing individual contributions is absolutely the *core* of meritocracy. We certainly encourage and facilitate people getting credit where it's due. This translates all the way down to the code and XML for plugins, where multiple authors can be defined. This enables original authors to claim credit while still giving the community credit if/when projects are maintained by the community. Thus, I'm not entirely sure where the line between meritocracy and pride/tribute lies. Perhaps you could explain where you've sensed this? I've certainly never felt ashamed for claiming credit on any of the plugins and themes I created, and have been fully supported in having my own home for them at http://lab.morgante.net Our hope is that the add-on directory will provide a more cohesive method for discovering and recognizing plugins (and their authors). Maybe you'd be interested in contributing feedback to that as we develop it? Best, Morgante On Jan 7, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Les Henderson <[email protected]> wrote: > The funny thing is that the more I find out about what it can do, and what > you have done, the more impressed I am. Trouble is, for the average user and > often everyone, most of the info is hidden or spread out way too thinly. Lack > of marketing is not a positive nor a strength. It is a shortfall that can be > corrected without any harm to the spirit you have nurtured and wish to > preserve. > > To even begin to decipher what a lot of plugins are supposed to do I'm > actually having to view lines of comment code for clues. Colin Seymour's work > and documentation, as an exception so far, is the ideal role model of what > should exist. Kudos to Ben Carpenter as well. > > I'm still trying to bring it all together so that I can understand it first, > then expand upon it so that even lesser mortals can as well. Currently I feel > I'm deciphering the Da Vinci code just to find a basic description. > > One thing I've observed and would like to suggest is the following. > Meritocracy is great for the core program but I truly feel that each theme > and plugin developer should be able to toot their own horn and get full > attributed praise for their work. I also feel that no matter how altruistic > you want to be, it is only human to appreciate praise as an individual. > > Therefore I am highlighting individuals and their work on the forum in the > hope that they will take more of a vested interest in keeping their creations > current and fully supported. If they wish to share or acknowledge other > contributors that I've left out, that just spreads the joy. Having lots of > mini-marketers strengthens the brand without detracting from the humility > factor that is expected while working on the core engine. > > Not sure if that makes any sense but I think it would maintain the good > things while removing some of the restrictions that hold you back. People > will still do what they do for the same altruistic reasons but won't feel > guilty about feeling proud about something they've created that's uniquely > theirs. > > Right now I suspect everyone worries about getting shunned for taking any > personal credit for absolutely anything Habari. I have no need or desire for > any personal credit but I have no such qualms about giving it to others who > deserve it. They shouldn't feel ashamed for receiving it. > > Meritocracy for the Core. Pride for the Plugins. Tributes for the Themes. > > > On Monday, January 7, 2013 9:00:49 AM UTC-5, Morydd wrote: > Here's the thing. That humbleness and the lack of marketing are part > of why Habari is as good as it is. No-one working on this project is > in it for any reason other than the fact that they're passionate about > creating great software. Unfortunately, that's one of our weaknesses > as well. We have amazing, amazing coders who don't worry about how > many users we have. They also tend to, when they have some time, make > the code better at the expense of all of the public-facing aspects. > Our strength is our weakness, and it's something we've been aware of > for some time. > > We would love to have people who were as passionate about the front > facing aspects of the project take the lead on those things. We'd be > even happier if they were as talented as our coders. That's the very > nature of meritocracy. If you take the lead, we will follow. If you're > not comfortable editing the wiki, feel free to file tickets about > things that need to be updated and replaced. We'll try to get things > up to scratch. One of the things we've held as central on this project > is the idea of "ownership". We want the people in our community to > feel that Habari belongs to all of us and you can take the lead > without waiting for permission. Go for it! > > On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Doug Stewart <[email protected]> wrote: > >> You are all so humble it's like watching a bunch of my fellow Canadians > >> doing an apology circle. "After you" "No, after you." "I'm sorry, you > >> first." "Sorry, did I interrupt your apology?" No one ever moves through > >> the > >> door. > > > > I've heard this referred to as a "Canadian Stand-off". > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Les Henderson <[email protected]> > > wrote: > >> > >> Ha. Consider me your pimp then. > >> > >> As a fellow writer and member of the humble class I don't want to come off > >> sounding like a circus barker or someone trying to make you lot into > >> something you aren't. I just find the untold story rather fascinating as I > >> put the pieces together on my own. > >> > >> You are all so humble it's like watching a bunch of my fellow Canadians > >> doing an apology circle. "After you" "No, after you." "I'm sorry, you > >> first." "Sorry, did I interrupt your apology?" No one ever moves through > >> the > >> door. > >> > >> I find it inviting though, just knowing I can help in some small way, and > >> that it will be appreciated just for the effort. Getting out of the asylum > >> might not be as easy as getting in. > >> > >> I'll keep trying to get booted out with all the insults though. I've > >> noticed that very few of your personal Habari blogs have a search function > >> on them or any index of blog entries or even a sitemap. The only way to > >> delve deeper into them is to use Google which is hardly an advert for the > >> product. > >> > >> The best site I've seen using it isn't even from one of the devs. The bulk > >> of yours would deter me from using it at all. Please, all of you, take an > >> hour to update to .9 and add some proper navigation. Working on the engine > >> is pointless if your car has no wheels. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Friday, January 4, 2013 7:31:15 PM UTC-5, Chris J. Davis wrote: > >>> > >>> Hey Les. > >>> > >>> Welcome to the asylum, glad you could make it! > >>> > >>> You make a number of good points, some of which we are already aware, > >>> some of which we are not. We are diligently working on refactors and > >>> redesigns of various components of our project, ranging from the main > >>> project website, to the extend/add-ons directory people have already > >>> mentioned. I agree with Ringmaster when he said that we are far from > >>> dying. > >>> Habari is more alive and cutting edge today than it has ever been, we are > >>> just finding it difficult to do the work necessary to make it cutting > >>> edge > >>> and powerful, and also to pimp it as such. > >>> > >>> Something people tend to forget is that projects like WordPress did not > >>> have dedicated communities of volunteers and great documentation over > >>> night. > >>> It took years, and quite a bit of money to get to that point. A mass > >>> exodus > >>> from another blogging platform helped in that regard as well. As someone > >>> who > >>> was their for the first release of WordPress after the b2 fork, I can > >>> attest > >>> to that. I was in the trenches, helping to make WP what it is today. We > >>> are > >>> a young project by most standards and it shows, good and bad. > >>> > >>> I love the fact that you are fired up to get in the trenches and lend a > >>> hand. We need more people who are willing to get in and get stuff done on > >>> the non-code front. We value those types of contributions greatly. I will > >>> do > >>> my best to try and be present in the forum, but as was mentioned earlier > >>> it > >>> can be difficult and frustrating to provide support in that type of > >>> environment. > >>> > >>> On Thursday, January 3, 2013 6:58:25 PM UTC-6, Les Henderson wrote: > >>>> > >>>> While I am trying my best to indirectly motivate this group into a state > >>>> of pride-induced euphoria I would be remiss to not present some of the > >>>> shortfalls I have encountered thusfar. > >>>> > >>>> Again, I wish no disrespect but I have to note that the more I research > >>>> this project, the more broken links and dated Habari-related posts I > >>>> find > >>>> amongst the blogs of even its core members. > >>>> > >>>> Obscurity seems to be the norm so far. Plugins are not only bereft of > >>>> any sense of adequate description but most are admittedly outdated with > >>>> year > >>>> old promises to update them so that they run on the latest version, > >>>> which > >>>> was .6 at that time. > >>>> > >>>> I can see, only from your personal interactions, that the actual program > >>>> is cutting edge but the marketing and promotion is shite. Seriously, if > >>>> I > >>>> can't find current praise or user reviews from the founders themselves > >>>> then > >>>> something needs work. I just hope that my efforts can help in some small > >>>> way. > >>>> > >>>> Meritocracy has its place, but perhaps you occasionally need input from > >>>> someone who has no vested interest and can speak out without being > >>>> banned > >>>> from the dev commune. I sincerely want to help since it is obvious that > >>>> everyone involved is as genuinely altruistic as I feel I am myself. > >>>> > >>>> Go Team Go. > >>>> > >>>> On Thursday, January 3, 2013 11:13:08 AM UTC-5, Les Henderson wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Michael, > >>>>> > >>>>> Apart from not having any idea how to edit the Wiki, I find that > >>>>> forums, despite all their problems, have more of a tendency to generate > >>>>> community spirit and voluntary support. Even when knuckleheads like me > >>>>> don't > >>>>> know the right answer, they are still often willing to help. Many hands > >>>>> make > >>>>> light work. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sometimes it clicks and other times the forums just sit dormant. I've > >>>>> had failures with them so I know they can be problematic. I don't > >>>>> anticipate > >>>>> burdening the dev team with support issues but it would be nice to have > >>>>> some > >>>>> as members. > >>>>> > >>>>> As mentioned, I currently belong to a tablet user forum with topics > >>>>> that range from high level rooting code to a discussion of early days > >>>>> in the > >>>>> computer industry called Old Timer's Corner. Lots of laughs and general > >>>>> interest discussions as well as the actual purpose of the site. Somehow > >>>>> it > >>>>> works. http://www.forum.lepanlife.com/index.php > >>>>> > >>>>> There's not much wrong with the documentation for those that know the > >>>>> process, but I'll try to offer suggestions as I notice things. I'm > >>>>> actually > >>>>> trying to do things in a way that I can note any concerns or roadblocks > >>>>> I > >>>>> have and how I resolved them. Once I've figured it all out, it's too > >>>>> late. > >>>>> I'd be just another person wondering why everyone isn't as smart as me. > >>>>> Ha. > >>>>> > >>>>> I'll just keep plugging away at it for now and hope for the best. It > >>>>> might just end up as the basis for a manual in the end. Still helpful, > >>>>> just > >>>>> different. The funny thing is I now won't have time for blogging so I > >>>>> don't > >>>>> need Habari. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 7:34:04 PM UTC-5, michaeltwofish wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Les, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I agree that we lack quality user-focused documentation and that > >>>>>> customisation can be difficult for new and less technical users. A > >>>>>> complete > >>>>>> renovation and refocus of the wiki would likely receive support. Is > >>>>>> there a > >>>>>> reason you've chosen to start a forum rather than working on the > >>>>>> existing > >>>>>> wiki? Easier to start with a clean slate perhaps? I'm definitely happy > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> talk about how we can improve or replace our documentation. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> You should also know that we've tried running a separate forum in the > >>>>>> past; it was eventually shut down, mostly due to the fact that it's > >>>>>> difficult for the people who know stuff to effectively provide support > >>>>>> on > >>>>>> too many channels. See > >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/habari-dev/71L-3y5fxyM/discussion. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 3 January 2013 10:27, Les Henderson <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Early days yet but I have something online which might give some idea > >>>>>>> of what I propose might be helpful. If the use of the logo is an > >>>>>>> issue, let > >>>>>>> me know. It will take a fair amount of work to get it up to snuff so > >>>>>>> please > >>>>>>> be patient. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://www.habarians.com/mybb/index.php > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I'm trying to do it up as a chronology, or road map, of my own > >>>>>>> experience as a user. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 1, 2013 3:00:44 PM UTC-5, Les Henderson wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I'll do what I can when time permits. I hope I can set something up > >>>>>>>> that will take on its own momentum since, like you, I have many > >>>>>>>> irons in as > >>>>>>>> many fires. I tried to think up a good name for a forum site domain > >>>>>>>> but > >>>>>>>> apparently your group, the squatters and the Ugandans took all the > >>>>>>>> good > >>>>>>>> ones. Ha. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I settled on habarians.com since the term was used here in the > >>>>>>>> groups over the years and not much elsewhere. I'll let you know when > >>>>>>>> it is > >>>>>>>> set up with categories I think will be helpful to the average user. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> As for immediate suggestions I highly recommend that you add a > >>>>>>>> couple items to the top left navigation block of the wiki to include > >>>>>>>> links > >>>>>>>> to Manual, Plugins, Theming, Installation. That alone would have > >>>>>>>> saved me > >>>>>>>> quite some time running around. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Monday, December 31, 2012 5:27:16 PM UTC-5, ringmaster wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Our community is oddly troll-resistant. I think they'd rather > >>>>>>>>> ignore it > >>>>>>>>> than fight. And it is holiday season, after all. Apparently, I'm > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> only one stuck at home, working. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Habari currently falls into a weird niche, where its users need not > >>>>>>>>> know > >>>>>>>>> why all the underlying code works, but they're likely to need to > >>>>>>>>> roll up > >>>>>>>>> their sleeves a bit and get their hands dirty. As you've noticed, > >>>>>>>>> Habari can be rough for someone who knows nothing about running > >>>>>>>>> blogs or > >>>>>>>>> code or HTML, because it fits in that niche. It's most likely that > >>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>> remains there because it's difficult for its developers to step > >>>>>>>>> back far > >>>>>>>>> enough to realize what they need to explain to the common person > >>>>>>>>> installing it. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> That said, it would be lovely to have someone on the front side > >>>>>>>>> working > >>>>>>>>> to discover and implement (or pass on to developers for > >>>>>>>>> implementation) > >>>>>>>>> what features/services would please common end-users. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> A good portion of the issues you've described have to do with our > >>>>>>>>> woefully incomplete addons directory, which is meant to house > >>>>>>>>> plugins > >>>>>>>>> and themes. This will supplant the wiki and other listings as the > >>>>>>>>> primary source of addons. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I'm happy to work with someone who is interested in enhancing > >>>>>>>>> Habari's > >>>>>>>>> user-facing image, though my time is primarily spent in the coding > >>>>>>>>> trenches, building Habari and using it for paying client work. If > >>>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>> had some immediate action items that you think we could execute on > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> hopefully increase novice user adoption, I'll help as I can, and > >>>>>>>>> I'm > >>>>>>>>> sure other people would, too. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Owen > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at > >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/habari-users > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Michael C. Harris > >>>>>> http://twofishcreative.com/michael/blog > >>>>>> IRC: michaeltwofish #habari > >> > >> -- > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected] > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/habari-users > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -Doug > > > > > > -- > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected] > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/habari-users > > -- > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/habari-users -- To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/habari-users
