Ah, I recognise this phenomenon and remember a very long after hours session
with Patrick at the Pontoise Fete de La Vielle about 15 years ago. Nice to know
he still has the kind of stamina that is now just a distant memory to me.
Philip
www.drohne.co.uk
Graham Whyte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
No gun, he had had a few glasses of wine as we all had (and other
stimulants)
The jam session went on to after sunrise the next day
Some of us were still playing up to breakfast time (not me)
OTW is a really great event if you have the stamina
Patrick has no preferences as to HG shape
He just likes playing really old HGs
He also has loads of stamina unlike Gilles who always goes to bed at a
sensible hour
Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JULIE BARKER
Sent: 10 March 2007 10:47
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HG] Wheel position
The picture of Patrick has got to be a rarity, Bouffard playing a non
lute-back whilst standing up. One question, he doesn't look too happy, exactly
what kind of gun were you pointing at him in order to make him play that Colson
for several hours?
Philip
Graham Whyte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
calculate the exact positiono of the wheel for the best sound
You don't calculate it, you ask a luthier
I guess that around 18-20mm wheel centre to front edge of bridge is normal
Wheel width is another issue but in my experience not a big deal
In general as with any bowed (or plucked) instrument
Putting the wheel (bow, plucking point) closer to the bridge gives a dryer,
brighter, sharper, possibly louder sound
Putting the wheel (bow, plucking point) further from the bridge gives a
sweeter, richer, more mellow, possibly a little quieter sound
My antique Colson HG (restored by Cali and Alden) has a narrow wheel (9mm)
quite far (26mm wheel centre to front edge of bridge) from the bridge
Is the sweetest sounding HG in many people's opinion (including Patrick
Bouffard who played it for several hours and described it as "parfait")
pic at http://www.altongate.co.uk/colson/PBColson.jpg
Colson made 2 guitar shaped models with the wheel at different spacings from
the bridge
Chris Allen has an example of each (one exacly like mine)
The key boxes have slightly different spacings also
Neither are playable unfortunately (unless anyone would like to fund the
restoration)
You can see them and my 2 (at the bottom) at
http://www.hurdygurdy.org/historical.htm
Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Seth Hamon
Sent: 09 March 2007 18:06
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HG] Key placement
One of the queston's I've had is.... I know where the tangents, nut, and
chanter bridge go, but I'm still not sure how you calculate the exact positiono
of the wheel for the best sound, Seth....
Graham Whyte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Patrick,
The "swinging tangent" on an Equal Temperament HG only just allows the
setting of Just Temperament
I suspect you have not actually done it
Tangent angles at the low end can approach 45deg
It is normally necessary to move the nut to reduce these
This means that the octave tangents are not at right angles
This is not a problem
Setting the key positions halfway between Equal and Just is a good solution
You can then set either temperament with minimal tangent angles
Please don't refer to Equal Temperament as "the tempered scale"
Almost all scales (temperaments) are tempered
Equal Temperament is just one of several THOUSAND named temperaments
Each of these has 12 possible root notes
Equal Temperament is more accurately described as Twelfth Comma Meantone
Temperament
This means that the ratios of all the intervals in every key are identical
Hence the name "Equal"
Although this allows playing in all keys it does serious musical damage to
some intervals
In paticular major thirds are 14% of a semitone (half step) out of tune
(sharp)
One reason for the need to temper is that 3 sucessive pure major thirds
don't make an octave
Try tuning an E true to a C
Then tune a G# true to that E
Then tune a C true to that G#
You will end up with a C which is almost 1/2 a semitone flat (midway between
B and C)
It is the distribution of this 42 cent error called "Diesis" that is known
as "tempering"
Different temperaments distribute this error in different ways
Read my paper at
http://www.luthiers60.freeserve.co.uk/pdfs/tuningandtemperament.pdf
Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf
Of Patrick Brown
Sent: 09 March 2007 00:14
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [HG] Key placement calculator
Long time ago, at least as far back as fretted instruments conforming
to the newer than fretted instruments 'tempered scale,' which
tempered scale goes back to the ca 1600's(?) and placed in our laps
by a fellow appropriately named Werckmeister(sp), (and fretted
instruments going back to the 1400's or earlier, depending on where
you were),,,derived, as Alden says, from using the 12th root of
2,,was known as the 'Rule of 18,' which means that each successive
distance for each next fret, or tangent, closer to the bridge one
goes, in order to find its placement, you divide that distance by 18,
and that resulting distance by 18, and so on ad infinitum
(literally,,like the frog jumping halfway across the pond,,then
halfway again). The actual number is generally agreed among luthiers
to be 17.817, if memory serves, though I've read 17.835, but that's
an obscure and only one or two source memory,,but 17.817 is the
divisor, if that's the right word. The number you use to divide, at
any rate. This is, of course, assuming you are after a tempered
scale. If you want just temperament,,then you'd use fractions of the
fundamental. The swinging tangent should allow either choice.
Pat
Philip G Martin aka Drohne
www.drohne.co.uk
Philip G Martin aka Drohne
www.drohne.co.uk
