Yep. Valve's just cool and doesn't care. Source wouldn't be half of what it is without VMex, MDLDecompiler, etc.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Tobias Kammersgaard < [email protected]> wrote: > http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Mod_Content_UsageThis is NOT an > official response from Valve though. > > One thing from the Steam Subscriber Agreement made me wonder > > "with regard to the SDK, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, > photocopy, > reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, > disassemble,* decompile*, create derivative works based on, or remove any > proprietary notices or labels from the Steam Software or any software > accessed via Steam" > > Doesn't that technically mean that decompiling materials, maps and models > is > against the agreement, just like reverse engineering the binaries is? > <http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Mod_Content_Usage> > /ScarT > > > 2009/5/14 Jed <[email protected]> > > > I think the great questions are: > > > > Is it hurting them? > > Is it worth them taking legal action? > > > > As has been pointed out, if you are just borrowing a few low-key (i.e > > not character/player) models such as props you're not really giving > > away the whole CSS game nor are you really damaging sales. > > > > Secondly, if borrowing a few models helps you get your free mod out > > the door, it might well prompt a player to purchase say the Orange Box > > to be able to play your mod - $$$ for Valve. > > > > Thirdly, the legal costs of taking any modder to task for borrowing a > > few props for his Source mod is going to be far in excess of their > > market value. > > > > From my experience of dealing with Valve first hand I like to think > > their a level headed bunch of chaps and their attitude is that if > > you're not "taking the piss" with borrowed/reworked content or using > > it outside of a Source mod then it's acceptable. Of course that's my > > opinion and not fact. > > > > Then again I think it's a sad reflection on the litigious society of > > today if a few modders would be stomped on from trying to learn and > > innovate for fear of legal repercussion. > > > > - Jed > > > > > > > > > > 2009/5/14 Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen <[email protected]>: > > > Technically, you are not stealing from Valve by making a copy of their > > > works, if they don't lose anything, which the clause that you only use > a > > > small portion of their content includes, because the content cannot > > > substitute CS:S, and then it won't affect their sales, thus it can > > quality > > > as Fair Use under the US Copyright laws. But it's still untested in > > court, > > > and will vary on a case basis, and I am not an US copyright expert. The > > same > > > argument goes for editing the content. Again, note that I don't > recommend > > > doing this, but if it's legal due to Fair Use, and you only use small > > > amounts of content, it will be much faster for the mod to load the > > content > > > from its own folder, instead of adding another search path, which > > increases > > > loadtimes. > > > > > > Oh and be careful when mounting .GCFs from code and not the > gameinfo.txt, > > I > > > had some experience that some people couldn't launch the mod > > successfully, > > > even if they had the .GCF I was mounting. Might be fixed though, but > > still. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Julian Moschüring" <[email protected]> > > > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < > > [email protected]> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:57 PM > > > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > > > > > > > > >> "-You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works" > > >> Nice reasoning, so if I go into a shop and only steal eg a part of a > > >> computer thats okay? :-) > > >> > > >> I think you should mount the CS:S content because you have to make > sure > > >> the users who use your mod own the right to have the models you > provide. > > >> Legally you are not even allowed to ship the modified model. To do it > > >> totally right you would have to extract the gcf during install and > > modify > > >> the original model... but, as Jonas said, I don't think valve will > > >> complain about this. > > >> > > >> > > >> Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen schrieb: > > >>> My personal expierence is that you can use CS:S Content in your mod. > > The > > >>> 100% legal way is to mount CS:S content but that requires CS:S to be > > >>> installed and owned by everyone who own your mod. Then if you modify > a > > >>> few > > >>> models, you can simply make some replacements in your own mod folder > > that > > >>> will override the CS:S content. > > >>> > > >>> If you want a more questionable method that allows everyone to play > > your > > >>> mod > > >>> (and faster because you don't have to mount another .gcf file or > two), > > >>> you > > >>> can simply extract the few models you wish to edit and their > materials, > > >>> and > > >>> put them in your mod's folder. This way you don't depend on any extra > > >>> .gcf > > >>> files or that people have CS:S installed. This should work fine for > > small > > >>> amounts of content. While untested in court, it could qualify for > Fair > > >>> Use > > >>> because: > > >>> - You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works > > >>> - The content required at least one of Valve's products > > >>> - The content used doesn't include the whole CS:S and doesn't limit > > >>> Valve's > > >>> sales, because the content isn't CS:S > > >>> - You do not earn any money from their works > > >>> - (You edited their works to some degree) > > >>> - (I have never heard of Valve having any complaints about this, as > > long > > >>> as > > >>> the above is true, despite the EULA probably saying otherwise) > > >>> > > >>> Again, whether it's legal or advised to extract and ship the contents > > of > > >>> a > > >>> GCF file, the perfectly safe but annoying way of doing it is mounting > > the > > >>> CSS GCF file, but the way you do it is up to you. > > >>> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: "Yaakov Smith" <[email protected]> > > >>> To: "'Discussion of Half-Life Programming'" > > >>> <[email protected]> > > >>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:09 PM > > >>> Subject: [hlcoders] Game Content > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> Example: I want to mess with CS:S models and include modifications > of > > >>>> the > > >>>> said models in my mod. > > >>>> > > >>>> Could I legally do that, but mount the CS:S content to cover the > legal > > >>>> aspect? > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>>> please visit: > > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >> please visit: > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
