still no reply, im not surprised though On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Harry Jeffery <[email protected]> wrote: > Yeah, I guess it makes much more sense if I treat it as sarcasm. > Meh. > > 2009/8/6 Tony Paloma <[email protected]>: >> I think you missed the sarcasm. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Harry Jeffery >> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:53 AM >> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine >> >> They use their tools to make their games to make lots of money and >> game of the year... again. >> >> 2009/8/6 botman <[email protected]>: >>> How else is VAVLe going to be successful unless they listen to our >>> helpful comments? It's obvious they don't know what they are doing and >>> need our help. >>> >>> On 8/5/2009 5:47 PM, Garry Newman wrote: >>>> They're probably too busy doing actual work to respond to a list of >>>> scatterbrain pipe dream demands from a bunch of lazy modders. >>>> >>>> garry >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Nick<[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this >> subject. >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul Rennison<[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>>>> Seconded! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> - Saul. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman<[email protected]> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of >> including >>>>>>> all my hard-earned research in this one? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris >>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work >>>>>>> fully >>>>>>>> with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the >>>>>>>> lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had >>>>>>> trouble >>>>>>>> on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that >>>>>>> Faceposer >>>>>>>> requires, all the MS links were 404, etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely >>>>>>> lemons, >>>>>>>> not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Harry >>>>>>>> Pidcock >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM >>>>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a >> wrapper >>>>>>>> that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very >>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>> language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then >>>>>>>> translated into complex hlsl). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> From: "Harry Jeffery"<[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM >>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"< >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the >> whitespace. >>>>>>> =[ >>>>>>>>> 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald<[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>>> I like this one better. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Olly >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on >> my >>>>>>>>>> screen!... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock<[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully >>>>>>>>>>> implemented >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> new feature. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I hope to see more of these innovations in the future. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Andrew Ritchie"<[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Surely this topic could be split into several different points. >>>>>>>>>>> Personally >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> see 4 different ones here. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Engine features >>>>>>>>>>>> 2) Tools Capabilities >>>>>>>>>>>> 3) Tools Availability >>>>>>>>>>>> 4) Tools Presentation >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The first is ignorable, Valve is clearly only going to add new >>>>>>>>>>>> features >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> change things, like BSP and displacement maps, when they think >> it's >>>>>>>>>>>> important. It's their engine and it needs to do what their games >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>> doing. If you choose to use Source then you have to accept you >> are >>>>>>>>>>>> modding >>>>>>>>>>>> their engine. Sure TF, CS, DoD etc.. all were mods that made >> Valve >>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> money and brought huge success but they were also developed >> around >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> constraints of the engine rather than the engine being built FOR >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>> mods >>>>>>>>>>>> to be made. If a technical limitation is big enough to warrent >> an >>>>>>>>>> engine >>>>>>>>>>>> change then do so rather than hanging about wanting Valve to add >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> feature, as big as the previous mentioned mods are you'd need to >>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>> prove you're up to their popularity before Valve would make a >>>>>>> drastic >>>>>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>>>>> for you. So either accept the engine's features before you get >>>>>>>>>>>> underway >>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> be prepared to encounter the fact you can't do certain things >>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>>> of work, if not at all. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The Tools Capabilities I think is what Jed was really getting at, >> I >>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>> mean like adding features to hammer and stuff but specifically >>>>>>>>>>>> allowing >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> chance for modders to by pass say model exporting to smd and just >>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> common format. The tool would need to have the importer and >>>>>>>> converter >>>>>>>>>>>> written but I personally think that approaching Valve with a >>>>>>> specific >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> industry accepted intermediate format might be a good cause. >>>>>>>>>>>> Especially >>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>> it makes life easier for getting the raw assets into a format >> that >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> tool >>>>>>>>>>>> can then use. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> With the availability of tools, I mean those asking that they be >>>>>>> open >>>>>>>>>>>> source. Specifically referring to a comment about hammer, look >> at >>>>>>>>>>>> Worldcraft and BSP ( Yahn's editor iirc ) they were originally >>>>>>>>>>>> personal >>>>>>>>>>>> projects. So you could take a leaf and have a bash at your own >>>>>>>> editor >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> open source it, you never know might turn out to be a better >>>>>>> designed >>>>>>>>>>>> tool. >>>>>>>>>>>> However just having the source code to hammer, I doubt would be >> of >>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>> benefit, you'd have dozens of versions of the tool floating >> around >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>> you really think you could add something useful to it? It may >> have >>>>>>>>>>>> bugs >>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>> if you advocate open source then why not take the initiative and >>>>>>> lead >>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>> example? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The last one, has been brought up in regards to wrapping a tool >>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> UI >>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> removing the need for QC files. With this I think the issue is >>>>>>>>>> balancing >>>>>>>>>>>> the technical knowledge and the capabilities of a tool. However >> I >>>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> again falls back to a situation where Valve are happy to use it >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> is, they understand it and can get any of their tools to do what >>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> need. >>>>>>>>>>>> It's the new, non technical, or perhaps slightly lazy people who >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>> that more complex aspects automated for them. I'd refer this >> back >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> Hammer, the early days of mapping could often mean rooting around >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> hex >>>>>>>>>>>> or text editor and as things progressed and art started needing >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> technical requirements to be simplified you found map editors >>>>>>> hiding >>>>>>>>>> away >>>>>>>>>>>> the old formats. Worldcraft and Hammer essentially sit between >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> user >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> the BSP, VIS, RAD etc.. compilers. The format they accept might >>>>>>> be, >>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> stage, more heavily tied into hammer but it's still a front end >> for >>>>>>>>>>> those. >>>>>>>>>>>> Again perhaps Worldcraft was a special case with Valve gobbling >> it >>>>>>>> up, >>>>>>>>>>>> HLMV >>>>>>>>>>>> too, but I think if the community is adamant enough about >>>>>>> simplifying >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> unifying the tool chain then perhaps a bit of proactive >> development >>>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>>>> lead the way or at least prove to Valve that everyone is serious >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>> rethinking the way we interact with the SDK. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, sorry bit of a ramble but mainly what I wanted to share was >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> specific things like adding FBX to the formats studiomdl can >> accept >>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> good ventures as they are specific and have an immediately >> obvious >>>>>>>>>>> reason. >>>>>>>>>>>> The other stuff like creating a unified system might be something >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> best approached with good old community spirit. If you're >> serious >>>>>>>>>> enough >>>>>>>>>>>> about wanting to use the engine but can genuinely improve the way >>>>>>>>>>>> users >>>>>>>>>>>> develop for it then get organized and see if it's a viable thing >> to >>>>>>>>>>>> tackle. >>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it's just to prove you were right. I know the later is a >>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> cop out but Jed, Nem and NS2 (prior to dropping Source ) are >>>>>>> examples >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> those who have gone out of their way to do so with tools and >> Garrys >>>>>>>>>>>> mod >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> prime example of taking what is available game code wise and >> adding >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> extensions (Specifically scriptint) you want. Plus it beats just >>>>>>>>>>>> falling >>>>>>>>>>>> back to the "Valve Needs to Support Mods" and "Valve do whats >> best >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> Valve >>>>>>>>>>>> games and mods need to deal with it" arguments that go no where. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Ben Mears<[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As a 3D modeller, animator, and mapper, (and not a coder) I >> agree >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jed said 100%. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jed, can you please just go work for Valve? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> great, thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Jed<[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No I wasn't advocating an 3D app -> MDL path. Simply adding >>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a more common/cross platform 3D format to those that >>>>>>> StudioMDL >>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem with the SMD format is that it's an old format from >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> old engine and requires plug-ins to be written for 3D apps to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. This leaves it down to Valve to write them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take Max for example - a plug-in for one version does not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically work with another, it needs to be recompiled >>>>>>> against >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> new versions SDK. A shop like Valve is probably only going to >>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> version and not upgrade every time a new one comes along. >>>>>>>> Therefore >>>>>>>>>>>>>> SMD plug-ins for other versions are going to have to be made by >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> 3D >>>>>>>>>>>>>> app users themselves. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now there are plenty of suitable cross-app 3D formats such as >>>>>>> DAE, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> FBX, etc. that Valve could add support for to the StudioMDL >>>>>>>>>>>>>> compiler >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (and I've vocally expressed this to Valve many times) in >>>>>>>> *addition* >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the SMD, OBJ and MRM formats it already supports. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why should they do it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Common file format means more 3D apps that can produce >> content >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out-of-the-box or via publisher made plug-ins. For example >>>>>>> DAE/FBX >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported by XSI, Maya, Max, Blender, Milkshape3D, etc, etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Gives modders/studios/licensees choice to use the 3D app of >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice to create content. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Valve doesn't need to produce plug-ins for apps, just support >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> format in the compiler. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simply put SMD format is binding end users to the few apps that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> write >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it and the generosity of community users such as myself, Prall, >>>>>>> et >>>>>>>>>> al. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to write these plug-ins for the 3D apps we want to use. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting case in point - a Canadian studio approached me >> once >>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking me when my plug-ins would be available for 3DS Max 2009 >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that was their in-shop 3D content creation tool and they had >>>>>>>>>>>>>> invested >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a lot of money in software and training and didn't want to have >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> move to something else. Their apparent decision to purchase a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Source >>>>>>>>>>>>>> license for their title was hanging on the availability of >>>>>>>> plug-ins >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for Max. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My main issue with some of the SDK tool is that that it feels >>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Valve aren't being smart about it. Good tools means wider >>>>>>> adoption >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which might result in more licensees and from a modders >>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> more people getting into it and maybe making the next >>>>>>>>>>>>>> CSS/TF2/Portal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that Valve can snap up as their IP. I think Valve should have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dedicated tool guy (not me) turning out polished useful tools - >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this rehashed crap that's hung over from Half-Life 1. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Start over with StudioMDL - make it a GUI app from the start >>>>>>>> (and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> adding batch/scripting to it wouldn't be hard) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Make HLMV a proper MFC of WPF app and get rid of the old >> buggy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mxtk >>>>>>>>>>>>>> GUI from Mete's HLMV. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Add support form more 3D modern file formats and eventually >>>>>>>> phase >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out SMD, etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - If for license/NDA reasons you can't release all the source >>>>>>> code >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> apps, at least release parts of it. A lot can be learned from >>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>>>> partial code that could help us as modders make our own apps. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Add some SDK tool API stuff - for example code to render a 3D >>>>>>>>>> window >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like in HLMV. It can still require steam but make it accessible >>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that developers can add support for model rendering in other >>>>>>> apps. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Polished tools will make the SDK/Engine more attractive to >> end >>>>>>>>>>>>>> users. Modding shouldn't be a right of passage but a warm >>>>>>>> welcoming >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience to inspire the next great ideas. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I could go on but you get the general idea... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Jed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2009/7/24 Jorge Rodriguez<[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:41 AM, Minh<[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The .smd format is extremely robust the way accomodates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reference >>>>>>>>>>>>>> meshes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AND skeletal animation. So you want a method to go straight >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> 3d >>>>>>>>>>>>>> model / >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> animation -> .mdl ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How is that going to work with parametric animation? where >>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> combine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multiple .smds to make an animation? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Minh, while the capabilities of the studio compiler are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> formidable, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaves much to be desired in terms of file format and syntax. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you've never struggled with the qc format. I am constantly >>>>>>>> having >>>>>>>>>>>>>> problems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with its limitations. It's a rather robust system that allows >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> combining >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> animations in many interesting ways, but the syntax still >>>>>>> pisses >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite a bit, and the technicality of it leaves it out of reach >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> artists. I hear Valve wrote some simple tools around it, but >>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprised >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they haven't replaced it entirely. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The SMD format is perhaps a bit clunky, but I don't have too >>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>>>>>>>> problems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with it, because it does exactly what is needed, even if it >>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a backwards way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.28/2259 - Release Date: >>>>>>>>>>> 07/24/09 >>>>>>>>>>>> 18:24:00 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Sent from Olly's SEGA Game Gear >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >>>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >>>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.30/2262 - Release Date: >>>>>>>> 07/25/09 >>>>>>>>> 18:01:00 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jeffrey "botman" Broome >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >
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