My trolling aside, thank you Kingsley.
On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 08:37 +1030, Kingsley Foreman wrote: > The problem is the damage was already done, id be stunned if valve reads the > list at all now, I know I stopped reading a while ago, im mainly of the list > for patches now, however I used to be a massive contributor, so did many > others who are now virtually silent , It all changed around the release of > CSS, the list suddenly become much larger, and the noise on the list became > unbearable and it lost its way. > > Saying that back then when a problem like this happened, the list was fall > of logs and tcpdumps trying to work out what was happening, rather then just > people saying it is happening over and over again followed by chat about how > valve owes us something. > > Kingsley > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Karl Weckstrom" <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:27 AM > To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they > don'toweyouanything. > > > Understood, Kingsley. > > > > And the people suffering from this bug aren't asking for help at this > > point. We're BEGGING for it. We want to know when this problem will be > > fixed as it is a major problem that's causing us grief (and a lot more > > work) - and this is the most reasonable place for this problem to be > > discussed. > > > > To those of you who wish it would "just stop", you're entitled to wish > > that - just as I am entitled to wish for it to continue in hopes that > > Valve will speak up about this. We are desperate for action on this bug, > > and we are completely within reason to do so. > > > > -k > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kingsley Foreman > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:41 PM > > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't > > owe you anything. > > > > It was a generalization, ive been on this list a long time and seen many > > people yell boycott. > > > > and to Timothy > > If someone kept calling me to tell me how much I suck i would stop > > answering > > the phone wouldn't you? > > > > and to Karl this mail list was a support list for the windows version of > > hlds that is it, so unless you are offering help, asking for help, > > reporting > > bugs, or getting info about a patch you prob shouldn't be talking. That is > > how it was for many many years. > > > > Id be a happy man if everyone who went off topic were removed from the > > list. > > > > Saying that because I don't really want to prolong this topic i won't > > respond again, I only wanted to clear up what Sakefox said. > > > > Kingsley > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "SakeFox" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:51 AM > > To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" > > <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't > > owe > > you anything. > > > >> Before you make your post on a subject, please read what was posted and > >> not just assume you read it all. There was never anyone screaming about > >> a boycott or alike. It sounds like your rant is more about other peoples > >> issues then the one that this topic was about. > >> > >> Kingsley Foreman wrote: > >>> I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If > >>> you > >>> want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to > >>> do > >>> it all you want. > >>> > >>> I know that many of you have been hosting servers for a long time, I > >>> also > >>> know many of you haven't im also assuming some people on this list > >>> aren't > >>> hosters at all. However little support from games companies from isn't > >>> something new, it has been going on size the first dedicated server was > >>> released. Valve traditionally are far far far better then most if not > >>> all > >>> companies on releasing patches and fixes. Anyone here heard of the > >>> Battlefield series of games? > >>> > >>> However this isn't the problem here, have any of you actually wondered > >>> if > >>> it > >>> is actually us as a whole who have caused the problem of valve "not > >>> listening". Ive been on this mail list for many many years, way before > >>> steam > >>> was released, back when CS was really the only game it talked about. The > >>> list was 1000x better then it is now. If there was a post it was us or > >>> someone helping someone else or a release. No crying that Valve don't > >>> love > >>> us, It was even before GSPs went on huge rants because a patch didn't do > >>> they wanted and it was costing them money. > >>> > >>> Back then Valve responded to most if not all problems. Why because when > >>> they > >>> did everyone said thank you and didn't scream boycott and cry foul. > >>> People > >>> get over it. Valve are a business, Valve of course want sales, they same > >>> way > >>> you do. We aren't valves customers if anything most of you are using > >>> something Valve give out for free to make money. > >>> > >>> And on a final note, i love people who scream boycott, why? because when > >>> you > >>> do it mean more player for us when when we ignore it. > >>> > >>> I'm actually more annoyed at the people on the list who have changed it > >>> into > >>> what it is today rather then a useful list like it used to be. I don't > >>> care > >>> about your business, what upsets you at night, how the world is out to > >>> get > >>> you, or your dick size. I care about patches and fixes with people > >>> willing > >>> to contribute to make something better, not whinge about why it isn't. > >>> So > >>> for the people working out bugs, making mods, and generally helping > >>> others, > >>> I salute you. For the rest maybe you should start a blog. > >>> > >>> On a final note, If you tell someone they are shit at playing catch > >>> every > >>> time they come round to play catch, eventually they will stop coming > >>> around. > >>> That is what valve has done. > >>> > >>> PS. yes I do feel bad about contributing to this tripe. > >>> > >>> Kingsley > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------- > >>> From: "Jon" <[email protected]> > >>> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 2:43 AM > >>> To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" > >>> <[email protected]> > >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! > >>> > >>> > >>>> Agreed! > >>>> > >>>> Jon > >>>> > >>>> ________________________________________ > >>>> From: [email protected] > >>>> [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kveri > >>>> [[email protected]] > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:07 PM > >>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > >>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! > >>>> > >>>> I agree. > >>>> > >>>> Kveri > >>>> > >>>> Blood Letter wrote / napísal(a): > >>>> > >>>>> If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, > >>>>> without which their games would be useless, they suck. > >>>>> > >>>>> If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go > >>>>> unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free > >>>>> weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a > >>>>> system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come > >>>>> into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with > >>>>> the > >>>>> power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we > >>>>> coordinate > >>>>> to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and > >>>>> the > >>>>> servers are safe. > >>>>> > >>>>> If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do > >>>>> they > >>>>> only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any > >>>>> company > >>>>> worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. > >>>>> > >>>>> Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart > >>>>> because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, > >>>>> and > >>>>> they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any > >>>>> semblance of documentation. > >>>>> > >>>>> Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're > >>>>> saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, > >>>>> then > >>>>> you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job > >>>>> is > >>>>> to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do > >>>>> that. > >>>>> Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to > >>>>> slack > >>>>> off. > >>>>> > >>>>> If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct > >>>>> documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an > >>>>> A > >>>>> doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. > >>>>> > >>>>> No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get > >>>>> some > >>>>> support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of > >>>>> those things. Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a > >>>>> certain level of quality and service from the business you are > >>>>> patronizing. > >>>>> > >>>>> If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us > >>>>> expect, > >>>>> that's fine. They'll just lose our money and our support. Let's be > >>>>> clear here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way > >>>>> around. I'm sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a > >>>>> job > >>>>> of my own. I can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I? > >>>>> Regardless, I wouldn't want to work in an office where a complete lack > >>>>> of > >>>>> customer support gets a passing grade. > >>>>> > >>>>> Valve's lack of support and communication is indefensible to anyone > >>>>> with > >>>>> even a remote knowledge of programming and software development. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:12:41 -0500 > >>>>>> From: [email protected] > >>>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If Valve doesn't do everything we say, they suck. If Valve doesn't > >>>>>> fix > >>>>>> everything now, they suck. If Valve doesn't kiss our asses every > >>>>>> second > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> every day, they suck. They don't care, they won't fix this, they > >>>>>> refuse > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> fix that. All they want is our money. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> You all sound like a broken record. And worse than that, you have no > >>>>>> lives > >>>>>> outside of this thing we have here. Did anyone stop to think that > >>>>>> since > >>>>>> they all busted their asses for who knows how long getting Left 4 > >>>>>> Dead > >>>>>> out > >>>>>> the door, while providing updates to TF2 the whole time, that > >>>>>> maybe...just > >>>>>> maybe, they'd want to take a break for a little while during the > >>>>>> holidays? > >>>>>> You know...so they could spend time with their families. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Honestly, since release of TOB, there have been a relentless amount > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> updates to their products. In the time that has passed from TOB > >>>>>> until > >>>>>> now, > >>>>>> the only people being neglected were probably most of the families of > >>>>>> Valve > >>>>>> employees. Does anyone feel they deserve a little break? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> They're ignoring us? Really? You think so? Does anyone here > >>>>>> subscribe > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> HLCoders? A little civility goes a long way. In my opinion, Valve > >>>>>> isn't > >>>>>> ignoring this list, they just don't want to reply. I swear, this > >>>>>> list > >>>>>> = > >>>>>> SPUF sometimes. Any two words they say are held against them > >>>>>> forever. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I know that a lot of kids subscribe to this list, so it would be > >>>>>> difficult > >>>>>> for a lot of you to understand, but there is such a thing as > >>>>>> priorities > >>>>>> in > >>>>>> life. Gaming is not as high on that list once you have a family to > >>>>>> take > >>>>>> care of and a boss to answer to. And you are not the boss of anyone > >>>>>> at > >>>>>> Valve. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Valve knows about the problems, obviously. You all keep saying the > >>>>>> same > >>>>>> things over and over. Give them a break. Just because you didn't > >>>>>> have > >>>>>> anything to do for the past couple of weeks doesn't mean they had to > >>>>>> sit > >>>>>> around and hop on every little problem we have. What happens when > >>>>>> updates > >>>>>> are released to address the current existing issues? Are you going > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> apologize for acting like a bunch of assholes or are you going to > >>>>>> feel > >>>>>> stupid for saying things like, "Valve doesn't care about their games > >>>>>> anymore"? Wait...I know. 90% of you will say, "Finally." 5% won't > >>>>>> be > >>>>>> happy no matter what. 4% will bring up another issue that Valve is > >>>>>> ignoring. And 1% will say, "Thank you." > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Yes, we paid money for the game. But $50 does not give you the right > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> treat the people trying to help you like shit. Sometimes the > >>>>>> problems > >>>>>> that > >>>>>> you claim are easy fixes may not be so easy to fix. And since most > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> you > >>>>>> know for a fact that it's an easy fix, there's always > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> . > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Grow up. They are aware of the problems. Like Aaron said, there are > >>>>>> your > >>>>>> priorities and then there are business priorities. Just because the > >>>>>> issues > >>>>>> high on your list may not be high on theirs doesn't mean they're > >>>>>> ignoring > >>>>>> you. But then, it would be stupid of me to assume that most of you > >>>>>> would > >>>>>> understand any of that, especially given your attitudes over the past > >>>>>> few > >>>>>> months. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -Richard Eid > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>> archives, > >>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ > >>>>> It's the same Hotmail®. If by "same" you mean up to 70% faster. > >>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008 > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>> please visit: > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>> please visit: > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
