"TF2 player count dropping is proof that this decision was a mistake."
*Correlation does not imply causation* On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:53 PM, <davidaap1...@gmail.com> wrote: > "TF2 player count dropping is proof that this decision was a mistake. > The player experience was not improved by any significant amount from this > change." > Player counts havent dropped any the player experience is sinificantly > improved by not getting into servers full of ads and pay 2 win > modifications. > > "It was already proved the community experience is superior to Valve > servers." > No its not. > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Robert Paulson" <thepauls...@gmail.com> > To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" < > hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > Sent: 26-2-2014 22:27:57 > Subject: Re: [hlds] Petitioning Valve TF2 Development > > > How are we responsible for communities like bets.tf using redirect > exploits? We do not have any influence over these people. Valve is > punishing the majority of us who did nothing wrong. > > TF2 player count dropping is proof that this decision was a mistake. The > player experience was not improved by any significant amount from this > change. > > It was already proved the community experience is superior to Valve > servers. There wasn't an official server in the top 200 before this change > and now look at gametracker. It is now dominated by official servers > because they get all the new players. If there were 32 slot official > servers they would also be in the top 20. > > http://www.gametracker.com/search/tf2/?query=srcds&searchipp=50. > > There was another situation like this long before quickplay where > community servers were put in a custom tab. Thankfully someone at Valve > came to their senses and removed it. I hope there is someone still working > on TF2 with the good sense to remove official servers by default as well. > > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Silencio Delgato < > silenciodelg...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I think there is more to the Quickplay issue than just whether or not >> QP should default to Valve servers or not. QP itself has caused a lot of >> issues and became the center of controversy ever since it came out in 2011. >> Though some of the changes that have been added recently are a step in the >> right direction, there are still many issues with this functionality that >> need to be addressed and improved upon. >> >> I'm all for wanting change to this functionality for the better to >> benefit everyone involved, but this petition (and please take no offense) >> seems a bit too short and vague to actually get the kind of change needed >> to make Quickplay a beneficial, reasonable, and extensible system for >> server ops and the community at large. It does not address many of the >> issues that have ended up creating this current situation we are all in and >> does not have a list of concerns or changes or anything that could be >> specifically addressed, it only has a demand and presents a solution that >> is based on an idea that we as server owners deserve players in our >> servers, which is the wrong way to go about this. And lets not forget the >> players, we have to be fair to them as well, regardless of whether or not >> they will be placed in our servers. We have to show that, as a community, >> we are worthy of their presence and a worthwhile experience to take the >> time to be a part of, not the other way around. These days, we seem more >> like enemies to players than friends/fellow players, given these >> recent/past developments regarding the community servers. >> >> We also have to accept that, while Valve relied on us in the past to put >> up servers for this game, they have the ability to put up their own now. >> However, if they wanted to cut us out entirely, they would have done it >> back in 2011 when Quickplay became a thing. But they allowed us (and still >> allow us) to use the functionality, giving us every opportunity to prove >> that we could use it responsibly and in the best interest of the player. >> Clearly, there were a few who could not do that and thus we were all >> punished. While, in my opinion, Quickplay was not entirely thought all the >> way through and I know I and many others have their own opinions about this >> subject, it does not account for the fact that we as a community were >> unable, and perhaps unwilling, to police ourselves well enough to ensure we >> used this functionality responsibly to avoid Valve stepping in and taking >> the measures it has. Arguably, that isn't our job to police other >> communities/servers, it never has been, and its not Valve's job either. But >> someone had to do this in order to put an end to the misuse, which is a sad >> thing indeed because it should not have come to that. >> >> We could go back and forth on who started what and why and all that all >> day, but bottom line, we are just as much at fault as Valve is for these >> recent developments that have hurt many community servers. However, what is >> done is done and we have to move forward now. It is time to stop playing >> the victim and start attempts in trying to get some meaningful, and dare I >> say diplomatic, dialogue open between ourselves and Valve for meaningful >> change, not band-aid solutions and option switching that works in the short >> term. Community servers are important for this game, they always have been >> for good number of reasons and they should be treated that way. However, we >> cannot rely on that reasoning alone to get anything done. We have to prove >> that the community experience is worth having/supporting, now more than >> ever before. The burden is on us and we need to work for it again and prove >> we are ready for the responsibility of owning a server that has players >> connecting to it utilizing functionality like Quickplay, but not just to >> Valve, but to the players that play with us on our servers as well. Respect >> and trust are earned, not given freely, and I don't see anything we have >> done in recent years to earn that respect/trust from anyone. >> >> Sorry if this was too long/came off as offense or rude, I did not mean it >> to be. I just felt I had to add my 2 cents. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 4:34 AM, Anthony <anth...@kinevonetwork.com>wrote: >> >>> Anyone who believes that petitioning for the default to be community >>> servers is relying on quickplay traffic far too heavily or using it to i.e >>> Play Ads. Remember with a good community you won't need quickplay for the >>> majority of my traffic they actually find the server themselves via the >>> steam browser from the data I collected. A few even favorite it afterwards >>> which with the new remember IP (Steam Account) they will always know where >>> it is. >>> >>> The point of community servers is to build a community, sure you can use >>> quickplay but it is a tool not a way of knowing members. A high majority >>> will go to valve servers but in recent days I've seen others talk about >>> 'going to prophunt or dodgeball. In their own Free will. The change to QP >>> was only positive sure there should be some tweaks but that's for another >>> topic. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 26/02/2014 12:09, Robert Paulson wrote: >>> >>> > This far from the worst suggestion I've seen. Perhaps aim for a >>> seemless solution where by "community servers" wasn't even a choice during >>> the first few hours of gameplay, becomes a choice later, then becomes the >>> default after it has been selected a couple of times. >>> >>> I don't like this modification to my idea. The point of it was to >>> overcome the huge inertia to simply click play now. They need to be >>> automatically switched to community servers. >>> >>> It is supposed to be a compromise which guarantees players the ability >>> to learn what plain tf2 is supposed to be without completely screwing over >>> communities like what's happening now. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:30 AM, John Irwin <j...@thepodkast.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >> It would be a more realistic solution to switch quickplay settings >>>> to community servers after 3-4 hours of playing time. >>>> >>>> This far from the worst suggestion I've seen. Perhaps aim for a >>>> seemless solution where by "community servers" wasn't even a choice during >>>> the first few hours of gameplay, becomes a choice later, then becomes the >>>> default after it has been selected a couple of times. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure a petition is the right way to go though. Particularly one >>>> that invites reddit to participate. Valve reads these email strings. A good >>>> message makes itself heard. >>>> >>>> John >>>> On 26 Feb 2014 08:12, "Robert Paulson" <thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> It is not possible unless you did something like switching from >>>>> fast to instant respawn. In that case we went from 10 to a whopping 30 >>>>> quickplay connects per day which is hardly worth being pleased about. >>>>> Official servers are still taking the vast majority of new players who are >>>>> never exposed to community servers. >>>>> >>>>> For those of you who weren't on quickplay this is also bad news for >>>>> you. Everyone relies on new players since old players quit all the time. >>>>> Fewer players become aware of community servers because it is too easy to >>>>> just click play now. >>>>> >>>>> If you have a top server you will see more players for now, but these >>>>> are mostly older players fleeing killed servers who will not be playing >>>>> forever. The new equilibrium hasn't been reached yet and we will see more >>>>> servers die as long as Valve continues this. Unfortunately this will be a >>>>> slow decline with many server owners not realizing they are a few months >>>>> away from dying as well. >>>>> >>>>> I am all for trying a petition but people will not associate with >>>>> someone who has such a bad reputation. The solution being offered, >>>>> "provide >>>>> an option to choose either Valve only servers or Community servers on >>>>> every >>>>> quickplay connect" would annoy everyone. It would be a more realistic >>>>> solution to switch quickplay settings to community servers after 3-4 hours >>>>> of playing time. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Peter Jerde <peter-h...@jerde.net>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I don't know about you, but our quickplay traffic has more than >>>>>> TRIPLED since the changes. Seems to have been quite a positive change. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Peter >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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