But it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'.
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Phillip Vector <[email protected]>wrote: > "TF2 player count dropping is proof that this decision was a mistake." > > *Correlation does not imply causation* > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:53 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> "TF2 player count dropping is proof that this decision was a mistake. >> The player experience was not improved by any significant amount from this >> change." >> Player counts havent dropped any the player experience is sinificantly >> improved by not getting into servers full of ads and pay 2 win >> modifications. >> >> "It was already proved the community experience is superior to Valve >> servers." >> No its not. >> >> ------ Original Message ------ >> From: "Robert Paulson" <[email protected]> >> To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" < >> [email protected]> >> Sent: 26-2-2014 22:27:57 >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Petitioning Valve TF2 Development >> >> >> How are we responsible for communities like bets.tf using redirect >> exploits? We do not have any influence over these people. Valve is >> punishing the majority of us who did nothing wrong. >> >> TF2 player count dropping is proof that this decision was a mistake. The >> player experience was not improved by any significant amount from this >> change. >> >> It was already proved the community experience is superior to Valve >> servers. There wasn't an official server in the top 200 before this change >> and now look at gametracker. It is now dominated by official servers >> because they get all the new players. If there were 32 slot official >> servers they would also be in the top 20. >> >> http://www.gametracker.com/search/tf2/?query=srcds&searchipp=50. >> >> There was another situation like this long before quickplay where >> community servers were put in a custom tab. Thankfully someone at Valve >> came to their senses and removed it. I hope there is someone still working >> on TF2 with the good sense to remove official servers by default as well. >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Silencio Delgato < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I think there is more to the Quickplay issue than just whether or not >>> QP should default to Valve servers or not. QP itself has caused a lot of >>> issues and became the center of controversy ever since it came out in 2011. >>> Though some of the changes that have been added recently are a step in the >>> right direction, there are still many issues with this functionality that >>> need to be addressed and improved upon. >>> >>> I'm all for wanting change to this functionality for the better to >>> benefit everyone involved, but this petition (and please take no offense) >>> seems a bit too short and vague to actually get the kind of change needed >>> to make Quickplay a beneficial, reasonable, and extensible system for >>> server ops and the community at large. It does not address many of the >>> issues that have ended up creating this current situation we are all in and >>> does not have a list of concerns or changes or anything that could be >>> specifically addressed, it only has a demand and presents a solution that >>> is based on an idea that we as server owners deserve players in our >>> servers, which is the wrong way to go about this. And lets not forget the >>> players, we have to be fair to them as well, regardless of whether or not >>> they will be placed in our servers. We have to show that, as a community, >>> we are worthy of their presence and a worthwhile experience to take the >>> time to be a part of, not the other way around. These days, we seem more >>> like enemies to players than friends/fellow players, given these >>> recent/past developments regarding the community servers. >>> >>> We also have to accept that, while Valve relied on us in the past to put >>> up servers for this game, they have the ability to put up their own now. >>> However, if they wanted to cut us out entirely, they would have done it >>> back in 2011 when Quickplay became a thing. But they allowed us (and still >>> allow us) to use the functionality, giving us every opportunity to prove >>> that we could use it responsibly and in the best interest of the player. >>> Clearly, there were a few who could not do that and thus we were all >>> punished. While, in my opinion, Quickplay was not entirely thought all the >>> way through and I know I and many others have their own opinions about this >>> subject, it does not account for the fact that we as a community were >>> unable, and perhaps unwilling, to police ourselves well enough to ensure we >>> used this functionality responsibly to avoid Valve stepping in and taking >>> the measures it has. Arguably, that isn't our job to police other >>> communities/servers, it never has been, and its not Valve's job either. But >>> someone had to do this in order to put an end to the misuse, which is a sad >>> thing indeed because it should not have come to that. >>> >>> We could go back and forth on who started what and why and all that all >>> day, but bottom line, we are just as much at fault as Valve is for these >>> recent developments that have hurt many community servers. However, what is >>> done is done and we have to move forward now. It is time to stop playing >>> the victim and start attempts in trying to get some meaningful, and dare I >>> say diplomatic, dialogue open between ourselves and Valve for meaningful >>> change, not band-aid solutions and option switching that works in the short >>> term. Community servers are important for this game, they always have been >>> for good number of reasons and they should be treated that way. However, we >>> cannot rely on that reasoning alone to get anything done. We have to prove >>> that the community experience is worth having/supporting, now more than >>> ever before. The burden is on us and we need to work for it again and prove >>> we are ready for the responsibility of owning a server that has players >>> connecting to it utilizing functionality like Quickplay, but not just to >>> Valve, but to the players that play with us on our servers as well. Respect >>> and trust are earned, not given freely, and I don't see anything we have >>> done in recent years to earn that respect/trust from anyone. >>> >>> Sorry if this was too long/came off as offense or rude, I did not mean >>> it to be. I just felt I had to add my 2 cents. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 4:34 AM, Anthony <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Anyone who believes that petitioning for the default to be community >>>> servers is relying on quickplay traffic far too heavily or using it to i.e >>>> Play Ads. Remember with a good community you won't need quickplay for the >>>> majority of my traffic they actually find the server themselves via the >>>> steam browser from the data I collected. A few even favorite it afterwards >>>> which with the new remember IP (Steam Account) they will always know where >>>> it is. >>>> >>>> The point of community servers is to build a community, sure you can >>>> use quickplay but it is a tool not a way of knowing members. A high >>>> majority will go to valve servers but in recent days I've seen others talk >>>> about 'going to prophunt or dodgeball. In their own Free will. The change >>>> to QP was only positive sure there should be some tweaks but that's for >>>> another topic. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 26/02/2014 12:09, Robert Paulson wrote: >>>> >>>> > This far from the worst suggestion I've seen. Perhaps aim for a >>>> seemless solution where by "community servers" wasn't even a choice during >>>> the first few hours of gameplay, becomes a choice later, then becomes the >>>> default after it has been selected a couple of times. >>>> >>>> I don't like this modification to my idea. The point of it was to >>>> overcome the huge inertia to simply click play now. They need to be >>>> automatically switched to community servers. >>>> >>>> It is supposed to be a compromise which guarantees players the ability >>>> to learn what plain tf2 is supposed to be without completely screwing over >>>> communities like what's happening now. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:30 AM, John Irwin <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> >> It would be a more realistic solution to switch quickplay >>>>> settings to community servers after 3-4 hours of playing time. >>>>> >>>>> This far from the worst suggestion I've seen. Perhaps aim for a >>>>> seemless solution where by "community servers" wasn't even a choice during >>>>> the first few hours of gameplay, becomes a choice later, then becomes the >>>>> default after it has been selected a couple of times. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure a petition is the right way to go though. Particularly >>>>> one that invites reddit to participate. Valve reads these email strings. A >>>>> good message makes itself heard. >>>>> >>>>> John >>>>> On 26 Feb 2014 08:12, "Robert Paulson" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It is not possible unless you did something like switching from >>>>>> fast to instant respawn. In that case we went from 10 to a whopping 30 >>>>>> quickplay connects per day which is hardly worth being pleased about. >>>>>> Official servers are still taking the vast majority of new players who >>>>>> are >>>>>> never exposed to community servers. >>>>>> >>>>>> For those of you who weren't on quickplay this is also bad news for >>>>>> you. Everyone relies on new players since old players quit all the time. >>>>>> Fewer players become aware of community servers because it is too easy to >>>>>> just click play now. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have a top server you will see more players for now, but these >>>>>> are mostly older players fleeing killed servers who will not be playing >>>>>> forever. The new equilibrium hasn't been reached yet and we will see more >>>>>> servers die as long as Valve continues this. Unfortunately this will be a >>>>>> slow decline with many server owners not realizing they are a few months >>>>>> away from dying as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am all for trying a petition but people will not associate with >>>>>> someone who has such a bad reputation. The solution being offered, >>>>>> "provide >>>>>> an option to choose either Valve only servers or Community servers on >>>>>> every >>>>>> quickplay connect" would annoy everyone. It would be a more realistic >>>>>> solution to switch quickplay settings to community servers after 3-4 >>>>>> hours >>>>>> of playing time. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Peter Jerde >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't know about you, but our quickplay traffic has more than >>>>>>> TRIPLED since the changes. Seems to have been quite a positive change. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Peter >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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