Again you have no idea what you are talking about. Apart from not having flash support up until the HTML motd renderer update there were very few (if any) "pay to win" servers. Saigns was probably the only one. And I don't know if it was always pay to win.
Sourcemod was very basic and lacked many of the plugins you see today. The admin plugins of the time Mani Admin/Beetlesmod and the like were plugins focused on administration and not providing TF2 specific pay to win benefits. So "pay to win" either didn't exist or was private and on VERY few servers. Remember this was 6 years ago and yet you are acting like it was exactly the same as it is today. On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Phillip Vector <t...@mostdeadlygame.com>wrote: > Fine then. They were losing players and losing players means they didn't > have people to pay to win. > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:30 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> "Not because it was a bad idea, but because when faced with losing >> revenue from ads (HTML ads) and pay to win slots, the custom server people >> cheated and didn't follow the rules." >> >> Ads? What? There were no ads back then. HTML motd had no flash support >> and no javascript support either. Clearly you have no idea what you are >> talking about. >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Phillip Vector >> <t...@mostdeadlygame.com>wrote: >> >>> You also claim.. >>> >>> >>> "There was another situation like this long before quickplay where >>> community servers were put in a custom tab. Thankfully someone at Valve >>> came to their senses and removed it." >>> >>> What you forget (or more likely, decided not to mention) is that the >>> reason they removed it was because several custom servers cheated their way >>> out of the custom tab and onto the main tab. Not because it was a bad idea, >>> but because when faced with losing revenue from ads (HTML ads) and pay to >>> win slots, the custom server people cheated and didn't follow the rules. >>> >>> Also, back in Nov 1, 2011 at 7:40 PM, you said on this very list... >>> >>> "To save Valve the administration overhead and abuse, and to satisfy both >>> server administrators and players, I suggest dropping the server report >>> function and adding either of these 2 features. >>> >>> 1. Add a check-box for Valve-only/Favorites-only Quickplay servers." >>> >>> So they followed your suggestion. Why are you now complaining? What >>> happened to you? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Robert Paulson >>> <thepauls...@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> "Player counts havent dropped any the player experience is sinificantly >>>> improved by not getting into servers full of ads and pay 2 win >>>> modifications." >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1388563200000&to=End+Time >>>> >>>> The change happened on January 23. I rest my case. >>>> >>>> "No its not." >>>> >>>> Gametracker stats clearly proves this. I didn't take a screenshot of >>>> Gametracker before this change but I am sure most people here who visited >>>> Gametracker can vouch for me. Where's your proof besides your own opinion? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:53 PM, <davidaap1...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> "TF2 player count dropping is proof that this decision was a >>>>> mistake. The player experience was not improved by any significant amount >>>>> from this change." >>>>> Player counts havent dropped any the player experience is sinificantly >>>>> improved by not getting into servers full of ads and pay 2 win >>>>> modifications. >>>>> >>>>> "It was already proved the community experience is superior to Valve >>>>> servers." >>>>> No its not. >>>>> >>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>> From: "Robert Paulson" <thepauls...@gmail.com> >>>>> To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" < >>>>> hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> >>>>> Sent: 26-2-2014 22:27:57 >>>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Petitioning Valve TF2 Development >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> How are we responsible for communities like bets.tf using redirect >>>>> exploits? We do not have any influence over these people. Valve is >>>>> punishing the majority of us who did nothing wrong. >>>>> >>>>> TF2 player count dropping is proof that this decision was a mistake. >>>>> The player experience was not improved by any significant amount from this >>>>> change. >>>>> >>>>> It was already proved the community experience is superior to Valve >>>>> servers. There wasn't an official server in the top 200 before this change >>>>> and now look at gametracker. It is now dominated by official servers >>>>> because they get all the new players. If there were 32 slot official >>>>> servers they would also be in the top 20. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.gametracker.com/search/tf2/?query=srcds&searchipp=50. >>>>> >>>>> There was another situation like this long before quickplay where >>>>> community servers were put in a custom tab. Thankfully someone at Valve >>>>> came to their senses and removed it. I hope there is someone still working >>>>> on TF2 with the good sense to remove official servers by default as well. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Silencio Delgato < >>>>> silenciodelg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I think there is more to the Quickplay issue than just whether or >>>>>> not QP should default to Valve servers or not. QP itself has caused a lot >>>>>> of issues and became the center of controversy ever since it came out in >>>>>> 2011. Though some of the changes that have been added recently are a step >>>>>> in the right direction, there are still many issues with this >>>>>> functionality >>>>>> that need to be addressed and improved upon. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm all for wanting change to this functionality for the better to >>>>>> benefit everyone involved, but this petition (and please take no offense) >>>>>> seems a bit too short and vague to actually get the kind of change needed >>>>>> to make Quickplay a beneficial, reasonable, and extensible system for >>>>>> server ops and the community at large. It does not address many of the >>>>>> issues that have ended up creating this current situation we are all in >>>>>> and >>>>>> does not have a list of concerns or changes or anything that could be >>>>>> specifically addressed, it only has a demand and presents a solution that >>>>>> is based on an idea that we as server owners deserve players in our >>>>>> servers, which is the wrong way to go about this. And lets not forget the >>>>>> players, we have to be fair to them as well, regardless of whether or not >>>>>> they will be placed in our servers. We have to show that, as a community, >>>>>> we are worthy of their presence and a worthwhile experience to take the >>>>>> time to be a part of, not the other way around. These days, we seem more >>>>>> like enemies to players than friends/fellow players, given these >>>>>> recent/past developments regarding the community servers. >>>>>> >>>>>> We also have to accept that, while Valve relied on us in the past to >>>>>> put up servers for this game, they have the ability to put up their own >>>>>> now. However, if they wanted to cut us out entirely, they would have done >>>>>> it back in 2011 when Quickplay became a thing. But they allowed us (and >>>>>> still allow us) to use the functionality, giving us every opportunity to >>>>>> prove that we could use it responsibly and in the best interest of the >>>>>> player. Clearly, there were a few who could not do that and thus we were >>>>>> all punished. While, in my opinion, Quickplay was not entirely thought >>>>>> all >>>>>> the way through and I know I and many others have their own opinions >>>>>> about >>>>>> this subject, it does not account for the fact that we as a community >>>>>> were >>>>>> unable, and perhaps unwilling, to police ourselves well enough to ensure >>>>>> we >>>>>> used this functionality responsibly to avoid Valve stepping in and taking >>>>>> the measures it has. Arguably, that isn't our job to police other >>>>>> communities/servers, it never has been, and its not Valve's job either. >>>>>> But >>>>>> someone had to do this in order to put an end to the misuse, which is a >>>>>> sad >>>>>> thing indeed because it should not have come to that. >>>>>> >>>>>> We could go back and forth on who started what and why and all that >>>>>> all day, but bottom line, we are just as much at fault as Valve is for >>>>>> these recent developments that have hurt many community servers. However, >>>>>> what is done is done and we have to move forward now. It is time to stop >>>>>> playing the victim and start attempts in trying to get some meaningful, >>>>>> and >>>>>> dare I say diplomatic, dialogue open between ourselves and Valve for >>>>>> meaningful change, not band-aid solutions and option switching that works >>>>>> in the short term. Community servers are important for this game, they >>>>>> always have been for good number of reasons and they should be treated >>>>>> that >>>>>> way. However, we cannot rely on that reasoning alone to get anything >>>>>> done. >>>>>> We have to prove that the community experience is worth >>>>>> having/supporting, >>>>>> now more than ever before. The burden is on us and we need to work for it >>>>>> again and prove we are ready for the responsibility of owning a server >>>>>> that >>>>>> has players connecting to it utilizing functionality like Quickplay, but >>>>>> not just to Valve, but to the players that play with us on our servers as >>>>>> well. Respect and trust are earned, not given freely, and I don't see >>>>>> anything we have done in recent years to earn that respect/trust from >>>>>> anyone. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry if this was too long/came off as offense or rude, I did not >>>>>> mean it to be. I just felt I had to add my 2 cents. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 4:34 AM, Anthony >>>>>> <anth...@kinevonetwork.com>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyone who believes that petitioning for the default to be community >>>>>>> servers is relying on quickplay traffic far too heavily or using it to >>>>>>> i.e >>>>>>> Play Ads. Remember with a good community you won't need quickplay for >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> majority of my traffic they actually find the server themselves via the >>>>>>> steam browser from the data I collected. A few even favorite it >>>>>>> afterwards >>>>>>> which with the new remember IP (Steam Account) they will always know >>>>>>> where >>>>>>> it is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The point of community servers is to build a community, sure you can >>>>>>> use quickplay but it is a tool not a way of knowing members. A high >>>>>>> majority will go to valve servers but in recent days I've seen others >>>>>>> talk >>>>>>> about 'going to prophunt or dodgeball. In their own Free will. The >>>>>>> change >>>>>>> to QP was only positive sure there should be some tweaks but that's for >>>>>>> another topic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 26/02/2014 12:09, Robert Paulson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > This far from the worst suggestion I've seen. Perhaps aim for a >>>>>>> seemless solution where by "community servers" wasn't even a choice >>>>>>> during >>>>>>> the first few hours of gameplay, becomes a choice later, then becomes >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> default after it has been selected a couple of times. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't like this modification to my idea. The point of it was to >>>>>>> overcome the huge inertia to simply click play now. They need to be >>>>>>> automatically switched to community servers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is supposed to be a compromise which guarantees players the >>>>>>> ability to learn what plain tf2 is supposed to be without completely >>>>>>> screwing over communities like what's happening now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:30 AM, John Irwin <j...@thepodkast.com>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> It would be a more realistic solution to switch quickplay >>>>>>>> settings to community servers after 3-4 hours of playing time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This far from the worst suggestion I've seen. Perhaps aim for a >>>>>>>> seemless solution where by "community servers" wasn't even a choice >>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>> the first few hours of gameplay, becomes a choice later, then becomes >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> default after it has been selected a couple of times. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not sure a petition is the right way to go though. Particularly >>>>>>>> one that invites reddit to participate. Valve reads these email >>>>>>>> strings. A >>>>>>>> good message makes itself heard. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>> On 26 Feb 2014 08:12, "Robert Paulson" <thepauls...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is not possible unless you did something like switching from >>>>>>>>> fast to instant respawn. In that case we went from 10 to a whopping 30 >>>>>>>>> quickplay connects per day which is hardly worth being pleased about. >>>>>>>>> Official servers are still taking the vast majority of new players >>>>>>>>> who are >>>>>>>>> never exposed to community servers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For those of you who weren't on quickplay this is also bad news >>>>>>>>> for you. Everyone relies on new players since old players quit all the >>>>>>>>> time. Fewer players become aware of community servers because it is >>>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>>> easy to just click play now. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have a top server you will see more players for now, but >>>>>>>>> these are mostly older players fleeing killed servers who will not be >>>>>>>>> playing forever. The new equilibrium hasn't been reached yet and we >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> see more servers die as long as Valve continues this. Unfortunately >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> will be a slow decline with many server owners not realizing they are >>>>>>>>> a few >>>>>>>>> months away from dying as well. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am all for trying a petition but people will not associate with >>>>>>>>> someone who has such a bad reputation. The solution being offered, >>>>>>>>> "provide >>>>>>>>> an option to choose either Valve only servers or Community servers on >>>>>>>>> every >>>>>>>>> quickplay connect" would annoy everyone. It would be a more realistic >>>>>>>>> solution to switch quickplay settings to community servers after 3-4 >>>>>>>>> hours >>>>>>>>> of playing time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Peter Jerde < >>>>>>>>> peter-h...@jerde.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't know about you, but our quickplay traffic has more than >>>>>>>>>> TRIPLED since the changes. Seems to have been quite a positive >>>>>>>>>> change. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - Peter >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>>>> please >>>>>>> visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
_______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
