Fine then. They were losing players and losing players means they didn't have people to pay to win.
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:30 PM, 1nsane <[email protected]> wrote: > "Not because it was a bad idea, but because when faced with losing revenue > from ads (HTML ads) and pay to win slots, the custom server people cheated > and didn't follow the rules." > > Ads? What? There were no ads back then. HTML motd had no flash support > and no javascript support either. Clearly you have no idea what you are > talking about. > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Phillip Vector > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> You also claim.. >> >> >> "There was another situation like this long before quickplay where >> community servers were put in a custom tab. Thankfully someone at Valve >> came to their senses and removed it." >> >> What you forget (or more likely, decided not to mention) is that the >> reason they removed it was because several custom servers cheated their way >> out of the custom tab and onto the main tab. Not because it was a bad idea, >> but because when faced with losing revenue from ads (HTML ads) and pay to >> win slots, the custom server people cheated and didn't follow the rules. >> >> Also, back in Nov 1, 2011 at 7:40 PM, you said on this very list... >> >> "To save Valve the administration overhead and abuse, and to satisfy both >> server administrators and players, I suggest dropping the server report >> function and adding either of these 2 features. >> >> 1. Add a check-box for Valve-only/Favorites-only Quickplay servers." >> >> So they followed your suggestion. Why are you now complaining? What >> happened to you? >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Robert Paulson <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> "Player counts havent dropped any the player experience is sinificantly >>> improved by not getting into servers full of ads and pay 2 win >>> modifications." >>> >>> >>> http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1388563200000&to=End+Time >>> >>> The change happened on January 23. I rest my case. >>> >>> "No its not." >>> >>> Gametracker stats clearly proves this. I didn't take a screenshot of >>> Gametracker before this change but I am sure most people here who visited >>> Gametracker can vouch for me. Where's your proof besides your own opinion? >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:53 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> "TF2 player count dropping is proof that this decision was a mistake. >>>> The player experience was not improved by any significant amount from this >>>> change." >>>> Player counts havent dropped any the player experience is sinificantly >>>> improved by not getting into servers full of ads and pay 2 win >>>> modifications. >>>> >>>> "It was already proved the community experience is superior to Valve >>>> servers." >>>> No its not. >>>> >>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>> From: "Robert Paulson" <[email protected]> >>>> To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> Sent: 26-2-2014 22:27:57 >>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Petitioning Valve TF2 Development >>>> >>>> >>>> How are we responsible for communities like bets.tf using redirect >>>> exploits? We do not have any influence over these people. Valve is >>>> punishing the majority of us who did nothing wrong. >>>> >>>> TF2 player count dropping is proof that this decision was a mistake. >>>> The player experience was not improved by any significant amount from this >>>> change. >>>> >>>> It was already proved the community experience is superior to Valve >>>> servers. There wasn't an official server in the top 200 before this change >>>> and now look at gametracker. It is now dominated by official servers >>>> because they get all the new players. If there were 32 slot official >>>> servers they would also be in the top 20. >>>> >>>> http://www.gametracker.com/search/tf2/?query=srcds&searchipp=50. >>>> >>>> There was another situation like this long before quickplay where >>>> community servers were put in a custom tab. Thankfully someone at Valve >>>> came to their senses and removed it. I hope there is someone still working >>>> on TF2 with the good sense to remove official servers by default as well. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Silencio Delgato < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think there is more to the Quickplay issue than just whether or >>>>> not QP should default to Valve servers or not. QP itself has caused a lot >>>>> of issues and became the center of controversy ever since it came out in >>>>> 2011. Though some of the changes that have been added recently are a step >>>>> in the right direction, there are still many issues with this >>>>> functionality >>>>> that need to be addressed and improved upon. >>>>> >>>>> I'm all for wanting change to this functionality for the better to >>>>> benefit everyone involved, but this petition (and please take no offense) >>>>> seems a bit too short and vague to actually get the kind of change needed >>>>> to make Quickplay a beneficial, reasonable, and extensible system for >>>>> server ops and the community at large. It does not address many of the >>>>> issues that have ended up creating this current situation we are all in >>>>> and >>>>> does not have a list of concerns or changes or anything that could be >>>>> specifically addressed, it only has a demand and presents a solution that >>>>> is based on an idea that we as server owners deserve players in our >>>>> servers, which is the wrong way to go about this. And lets not forget the >>>>> players, we have to be fair to them as well, regardless of whether or not >>>>> they will be placed in our servers. We have to show that, as a community, >>>>> we are worthy of their presence and a worthwhile experience to take the >>>>> time to be a part of, not the other way around. These days, we seem more >>>>> like enemies to players than friends/fellow players, given these >>>>> recent/past developments regarding the community servers. >>>>> >>>>> We also have to accept that, while Valve relied on us in the past to >>>>> put up servers for this game, they have the ability to put up their own >>>>> now. However, if they wanted to cut us out entirely, they would have done >>>>> it back in 2011 when Quickplay became a thing. But they allowed us (and >>>>> still allow us) to use the functionality, giving us every opportunity to >>>>> prove that we could use it responsibly and in the best interest of the >>>>> player. Clearly, there were a few who could not do that and thus we were >>>>> all punished. While, in my opinion, Quickplay was not entirely thought all >>>>> the way through and I know I and many others have their own opinions about >>>>> this subject, it does not account for the fact that we as a community were >>>>> unable, and perhaps unwilling, to police ourselves well enough to ensure >>>>> we >>>>> used this functionality responsibly to avoid Valve stepping in and taking >>>>> the measures it has. Arguably, that isn't our job to police other >>>>> communities/servers, it never has been, and its not Valve's job either. >>>>> But >>>>> someone had to do this in order to put an end to the misuse, which is a >>>>> sad >>>>> thing indeed because it should not have come to that. >>>>> >>>>> We could go back and forth on who started what and why and all that >>>>> all day, but bottom line, we are just as much at fault as Valve is for >>>>> these recent developments that have hurt many community servers. However, >>>>> what is done is done and we have to move forward now. It is time to stop >>>>> playing the victim and start attempts in trying to get some meaningful, >>>>> and >>>>> dare I say diplomatic, dialogue open between ourselves and Valve for >>>>> meaningful change, not band-aid solutions and option switching that works >>>>> in the short term. Community servers are important for this game, they >>>>> always have been for good number of reasons and they should be treated >>>>> that >>>>> way. However, we cannot rely on that reasoning alone to get anything done. >>>>> We have to prove that the community experience is worth having/supporting, >>>>> now more than ever before. The burden is on us and we need to work for it >>>>> again and prove we are ready for the responsibility of owning a server >>>>> that >>>>> has players connecting to it utilizing functionality like Quickplay, but >>>>> not just to Valve, but to the players that play with us on our servers as >>>>> well. Respect and trust are earned, not given freely, and I don't see >>>>> anything we have done in recent years to earn that respect/trust from >>>>> anyone. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry if this was too long/came off as offense or rude, I did not mean >>>>> it to be. I just felt I had to add my 2 cents. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 4:34 AM, Anthony <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Anyone who believes that petitioning for the default to be community >>>>>> servers is relying on quickplay traffic far too heavily or using it to >>>>>> i.e >>>>>> Play Ads. Remember with a good community you won't need quickplay for the >>>>>> majority of my traffic they actually find the server themselves via the >>>>>> steam browser from the data I collected. A few even favorite it >>>>>> afterwards >>>>>> which with the new remember IP (Steam Account) they will always know >>>>>> where >>>>>> it is. >>>>>> >>>>>> The point of community servers is to build a community, sure you can >>>>>> use quickplay but it is a tool not a way of knowing members. A high >>>>>> majority will go to valve servers but in recent days I've seen others >>>>>> talk >>>>>> about 'going to prophunt or dodgeball. In their own Free will. The change >>>>>> to QP was only positive sure there should be some tweaks but that's for >>>>>> another topic. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 26/02/2014 12:09, Robert Paulson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > This far from the worst suggestion I've seen. Perhaps aim for a >>>>>> seemless solution where by "community servers" wasn't even a choice >>>>>> during >>>>>> the first few hours of gameplay, becomes a choice later, then becomes the >>>>>> default after it has been selected a couple of times. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't like this modification to my idea. The point of it was to >>>>>> overcome the huge inertia to simply click play now. They need to be >>>>>> automatically switched to community servers. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is supposed to be a compromise which guarantees players the >>>>>> ability to learn what plain tf2 is supposed to be without completely >>>>>> screwing over communities like what's happening now. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:30 AM, John Irwin <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> It would be a more realistic solution to switch quickplay >>>>>>> settings to community servers after 3-4 hours of playing time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This far from the worst suggestion I've seen. Perhaps aim for a >>>>>>> seemless solution where by "community servers" wasn't even a choice >>>>>>> during >>>>>>> the first few hours of gameplay, becomes a choice later, then becomes >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> default after it has been selected a couple of times. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not sure a petition is the right way to go though. Particularly >>>>>>> one that invites reddit to participate. Valve reads these email >>>>>>> strings. A >>>>>>> good message makes itself heard. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> John >>>>>>> On 26 Feb 2014 08:12, "Robert Paulson" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is not possible unless you did something like switching from >>>>>>>> fast to instant respawn. In that case we went from 10 to a whopping 30 >>>>>>>> quickplay connects per day which is hardly worth being pleased about. >>>>>>>> Official servers are still taking the vast majority of new players who >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> never exposed to community servers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For those of you who weren't on quickplay this is also bad news for >>>>>>>> you. Everyone relies on new players since old players quit all the >>>>>>>> time. >>>>>>>> Fewer players become aware of community servers because it is too easy >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> just click play now. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you have a top server you will see more players for now, but >>>>>>>> these are mostly older players fleeing killed servers who will not be >>>>>>>> playing forever. The new equilibrium hasn't been reached yet and we >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> see more servers die as long as Valve continues this. Unfortunately >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> will be a slow decline with many server owners not realizing they are >>>>>>>> a few >>>>>>>> months away from dying as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am all for trying a petition but people will not associate with >>>>>>>> someone who has such a bad reputation. The solution being offered, >>>>>>>> "provide >>>>>>>> an option to choose either Valve only servers or Community servers on >>>>>>>> every >>>>>>>> quickplay connect" would annoy everyone. It would be a more realistic >>>>>>>> solution to switch quickplay settings to community servers after 3-4 >>>>>>>> hours >>>>>>>> of playing time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Peter Jerde <[email protected] >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't know about you, but our quickplay traffic has more than >>>>>>>>> TRIPLED since the changes. Seems to have been quite a positive change. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Peter >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>>> please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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