And those servers should also get to make that choice if they wish - as
long as they're not bypassing it (and are not in the quickplay pool)
they're not doing anything wrong.
~~~~~
"Their heads are green, and their hands are blue,
And they went to sea in a Sieve." - Edward Lear
On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:49 PM, Saint K. <[email protected]> wrote:
> There are servers out there detecting the disablehtml cvar and effectively
> punishing you for it.
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:
> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Paul
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 04, 2014 10:29 PM
> *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Can we have a Quickplay Status report, please? 2
>
>
>
> And that's why cl_disablehtmlmotd exists, to allow the choice. All
> disabling Flash and other elements in a HTML MOTD for all servers will do
> is just punish everyone, it's hardly a solution really. You may as well say
> "lets take away all abilities to customise any element in the game from
> GSO's", because little by little that's what it's becoming if that happens.
> Now, if users had the options to disable certain elements within the HTML
> MOTD, rather than disable the HTML MOTD entirely with cl_disablehtmlmotd,
> then that might be a reasonable solution.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4 June 2014 18:50, E. Olsen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I agree that disabling javascript/flash/html5 is less than an ideal
> solution, but for the very minor things it would disable (source radio,
> etc.), if it would allow Valve to return to a level playing field it would
> be a very small sacrifice. I'm sure if Valve came to all of us and said
> "we'll enable all servers by default, but we need to remove those elements
> from the web browser to do so" we would all jump at that chance. I honestly
> believe as long as operators have the ability to run those kinds of ads it
> will be abused by the blackhat folks to the point that they ruin it for the
> rest of us.
>
>
>
> I fully agree that mass punishment is/was a seriously ham-fisted approach
> to dealing with the issues, and was the wrong (and frankly, unethical) way
> to treat all server operators.
>
>
>
> I like your ideas for better informing the players regarding quickplay
> options, but as with any system of this kind, I think it should start with
> "maximum diversity" fully enabled by default, and allow the players to opt
> out, instead of opting in. Only then will it be a truly level playing field
> for all servers.
>
>
>
> On a side note, I would also like to know why the "server scoring" system
> (apparently) didn't work, and why it wasn't more effectively used to weed
> out all the bad apples in the first place.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Alexander Corn <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
>
>
> Further - if Valve wanted to get rid of those horrendous MOTD ads (and I
> wish to hell they would), they could easily do it by disabling
> flash/javascript/html5 from functioning in the in-game web browser (which
> would have probably fixed the problem almost entirely).
>
>
>
> This is still not an ideal solution. Plenty of community servers rely on
> the MOTD and features such as JavaScript and Flash (mostly for audio
> streams, but many are switching to HTML5 audio elements) for their custom
> features. Removing those features is still removing features that have
> existed for a very long time due to the abusive tendencies of a few.
>
>
>
> Those that are abusive should be dealt with. There is no reason why
> everyone should suffer in order to punish a few. It goes back to grade
> school gym class. Weren't you pissed when the teacher/coach made everyone
> run laps or whatever because 3-4 kids wouldn't stop talking? That's how
> we're being treated now.
>
>
>
> I could live with the default Valve-only option if it were more obvious
> how to switch it. When the player first starts up TF2, they're shown popups
> directing them to the store, showing them how the backpack works, etc.
> Ironically, these popups really only cover the item system, which most can
> agree comes second to actual gameplay. There's no coaching regarding how to
> actually join a game.
>
>
>
> Display a balloon that points to the Quickplay button and says something
> like, "Click here to be quickly matched into a game based on gamemode" and
> one that points to the servers button and says something like, "Click here
> to fine-tune your desired game settings".
>
>
>
> Also show a balloon in the Quickplay dialog that points to the settings
> button (which isn't exactly immediately apparent as being clickable) and
> also a dialog that explains the difference between official and community
> servers.
>
>
>
> "Official servers offer an unmodified and uncustomized experience."
>
>
>
> "Community servers typically offer better moderation, some minor gameplay
> modifications, and a greater sense of community."
>
>
>
>
> Dr. McKay
>
> www.doctormckay.com
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, E. Olsen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Perhaps it's time to examine the possibility that Valve is very
> purposefully forcing community run servers into the minority because
> they're straight tired of having to play code-counter-code withe people
> like the fuckjobs who programmed plugins to force ads down players throats
> and other like-minded stains.
>
>
>
> I guess I would consider that a valid argument if it wasn't Valve who had
> enabled the "ad farms" in the first place. Those things were never a
> problem before quickplay came along, because those kinds of servers would
> never get favorited to see a return visitor. The Pinion-supported folks
> were only enabled by quickplay, plain and simple - which is why when Pinion
> came on the scene shortly after quickplay came along, you had these guys go
> from a dozen or so servers to 100+ just to farm ad impressions.
>
>
>
>
>
> Further - if Valve wanted to get rid of those horrendous MOTD ads (and I
> wish to hell they would), they could easily do it by disabling
> flash/javascript/html5 from functioning in the in-game web browser (which
> would have probably fixed the problem almost entirely). If they did that,
> and just quietly dropped any of the "premium" servers from quickplay, they
> would have knocked out all but the most determined black-hat folks, and
> those can always be dealt with.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Eli Witt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Replied to the last message, I'll post this here too.
>
>
>
> Well, we know from experience just how good Valve is at keeping a lid on
> things (case in point HL3) so I doubt they're going to acknowledge this in
> any way unless they see fit to, not because we're disgruntled and asking
> for information.
>
>
>
> And for what it's worth, everyone (who's opinion on this list is worth a
> damn) has thrown out the point that "we're the ones providing the servers
> for Valve, we're the ones who give their players a place to play etc etc" -
> but what I think is going unnoticed here is the fact that Valve is
> obviously taking steps (and increasingly larger ones) to nullify that
> argument in it's entirety.
>
>
>
> Perhaps it's time to examine the possibility that Valve is very
> purposefully forcing community run servers into the minority because
> they're straight tired of having to play code-counter-code withe people
> like the fuckjobs who programmed plugins to force ads down players throats
> and other like-minded stains.
>
>
>
> We've got the binaries on both ends, and Valve knows this. It's virtually
> impossible to stop people from being fuckjobs with access to both binaries,
> so let [Valve] just diminish the footprint the fuckjobs get access by about
> 90% by forcing people into the servers we can afford to run now that we've
> monetized TF2.
>
>
>
> If I was Valve and I made this decision, I wouldn't give a piss whether
> people who run servers are upset by this or threaten to pull their servers
> offline because of this decision, because that's the direction I wanted to
> force you in anyway.
>
>
>
> Just a thought.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Robert Paulson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Making a new thread because replies are being blocked with "Message body
> is too big: 41090 bytes with a limit of 40 KB".
>
>
>
> Complaints here have historically gone ignored but it doesn't mean it is a
> bad idea to keep the issue in the spotlight here as well.
>
> Just make sure you also contact Valve directly.
> http://valvesoftware.com/email.php
> Some people say Fletcher is in charge of TF2 now so email him too.
>
> We're really past the point in asking Valve for an "answer". The answer is
> probably the same as before: a handful of servers ruined the experience for
> a few new players and some lazy players who couldn't be bothered to type
> valve in the tags.
>
> So they threw in some useless features like quickpick and released server
> migrations at the same time to shut you up before you realize your
> community was also going to get screwed so there would be no huge public
> outrage.
>
> What needs to be done now is to get someone at Valve to realize that this
> change did more harm than good and there is evidence to prove it.
>
> Any other argument we bring up they will consider it biased because we
> host servers and somehow that means we don't care about players.
>
>
> Ever since the change, global TF2 player counts have steadily been
> dropping. Peaks have dipped from 82k to 71k, a 15% loss. And summer
> vacation has already started as you can see from the weekday player counts.
>
>
> http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1388563200000&to=End+Time
>
>
>
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