On 16/10/2012 11:56, Drogen Viech wrote:
Why can't you just leave the cmd- and updaterate alone? It seriously
pisses me of when people think "higher == better" - the default
settings of updating and sending 30 times per second are just fine.
I'd say they definitely matter. There's no higher==better of course.
I think they should be 66 - the tic rate of the server. So fixed values.
Higher shouldn't, aiui, achieve anything. But is there any sane reason
for them to be lower? Unless there's
some country with a significant dialup population (but their experience
is going
to suck anyway) or if someone can show (in a robust way) that the lower
values make
no difference.
The point is, I don't understand why you can even change these values in
the first place.
Why aren't they constants? And 66?
The same with rate. <= 30000 and its anecdotally not as good. That's
over several
thousand hours of playing. I can tell without looking if I join a server
that has either capped max_rate or
forced it to a particular value compared with the client setting I have.
But, equally, there are a set popular servers with sv_min_rate 90000 for
some bizarre reason, and they seem just as broken as
the ones with it set low. (It's not clear whether their performance
issues are because they have hundreds of servers though or
whether it's the actual config causing them)
But, I don't really understand why the defaults are what they are.
The defaults should be right in the sense that
- There should be no need for servers to cap anything based up a feeling
they have that clients could break something if they don't. Or that
without the caps it would give some players an advantage over others if
they aren't aware of the client settings.
- There should be no need for servers to change things today because the
defaults are years out of date.
- This should apply to the client settings too. if I can change my
settings and get a better experience - especially if that gives an
advantage or edge over other players, then either the defaults are wrong
and/or the fact these settings are hidden is wrong.
Although I'd tentatively agree with you that server admins pissing with
them is
one of the worst aspects of 3rd party servers it's not because they make
them bigger.
It's usually the reverse.
Especially now more of Valve's games are forcing matchmaking and, as we
saw last night, as
Valve are trying to slowly hammer a wedge into the "punish you for
leaving early" initiatives.
Join a server with sv_max_rate 25000 and I'll usually leave. Perhaps
that won't affect mann up (but Valve's French servers are a performance
joke so I hope they aren't punishing
anyone for leaving them) similarly there are umpteen admin foobars and
no-nos, halfwitted plugin use
that the browser and (obviously matchmaking) does not tell you or let
you filter out before you join.
Hence, it's no wonder lots of people leave games after finding
themselves on a server like that. Valve's French servers could barely
manage 12v12 and cannot run boot camp MvM - so I'm sure some of this
will affect mann up servers.
It would make sense if Valve are phasing out server browsing and having
"you must finish a game" initiatives, to improve the server matching so
it takes into account not just ping but these parameters too, and plugin
use. A good first step might be getting sane defaults in place if they
genuinely aren't sane now (and I would say anecdotally setting
cl_updaterate and so on to 66 , rate to 60000 and cl_interp to 0 (which
gives you typically 30.0ms instead of 100.0ms but some server admins
have managed to break this) is a much better experience and an advantage
over anyone who uses the defaults.
So either I'm wrong or there are shedloads of badly configured servers
out there hurting the experience of their players and, obviously,
Valve's client defaults are not helping either.
Perhaps the real issue is, no one has any real idea what the values
should or shouldn't be bar from their anecdotal experience from trying
the client. And the page written by valve talking about how the network
compensation works that touches upon some of this. Which sounds
reasonable at first but, as anyone who has played with a ping >=100 will
tell you, in practise it is a load of hot air. There is no compensating
for a high ping or at least, Valve certainly haven't implemented it - if
your ping is high, the game sucks. I believe that's equally true of
these other values too like rate and cl_cmdrate and so on - and that the
better you are at the game the more sensitive you will be to them.
--
Dan.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
