Right, but where is it expressed that it's against the rules? When it's above 24 players it's advertised with the proper tag. I definitely don't see it as any worse than joining some RTD server within the Quickplay pool. Most of all, had Valve simply said "Don't do this". We would of removed it. It's not that big of a deal to remove it really, had I thought they were ever going to delist servers for it.
I'm still having trouble figuring out how this could be intended, because there are a bunch of servers listed right now that are breaking this "rule". On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Gordon Reynolds < [email protected]> wrote: > "The *only* reason we were doing it was to avoid the initial hit to our > quickplay score. The intention isn't to trick players, though I can see how > one may think that was the intention." > > Yeah that's the problem right here, nobody believes it was your intention > to do wrong, but you ARE hosting a 32 man server, and then trying to still > score on the no-penalty quickplay traffic until you get more than 24 > players. That's using the system to get more players into your server than > you'd normally get otherwise - because they might think they are here for a > good ol' 12 on 12 action. Not a 12 on 12 until more show up kind of game. > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Essay Tew Phaun <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > It's pretty simple to me, let server owners know it's a violation of the > > policy and most will remove it. I've removed it from all of the servers. > > The *only* reason we were doing it was to avoid the initial hit to our > > quickplay score. The intention isn't to trick players, though I can see > how > > one may think that was the intention. My problem is that the subject has > > been brought up a few times and we've never gotten a direct answer on it > > and by definition, it does not break the policy. The server is advertised > > properly by the tag when the server goes beyond 24 players. We don't set > > tags anywhere because we don't need to, when you enable/disable features > > the server usually handles that for you. It seems really strange to me > that > > you would automatically delist a server like that without answering the > > question about whether this is a violation or not and without making it > so > > when servers go above 24 players the tag is changed immediately. > > > > I don't like the idea that we're not breaking the rules the way they > > currently exist yet we've had a server delisted. I don't like the idea > that > > we were never given a direct answer yet we had a server delisted. I also > > see tons of servers right now running 32 players without the tag. It is > > very very very bothersome that I've reported servers in the past who were > > grossly breaking the policy of truth rules and it took them months to get > > delisted, yet one of our servers is now breaking a rule that was never > > clarified as breaking a rule? I have big problems with that, because I > > would have not had a problem removing the dynamic slot changer had this > > been expressed as a violation by Valve. The tag is changed when the > player > > counts rise but because it's not done immediately (Don't ask me why this > > is) a lot of servers were blacklisted for those few moments where the tag > > doesn't exist? > > > > I really believe this has to be a mistake, because there are a bunch of > > servers right now as I type this that are breaking tag rules and are not > > delisted. It's not enough that we have to work as a community as hard as > we > > do to keep our servers full on a daily basis with client crashes and > server > > crashes, now we've got a server delisted that really doesn't break any > > rules. > > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 2:51 PM, HyperionGaming.org Admin < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Exactly. Valve never talked about the dynamicslots plugin as a > violation > > > before. If the plugin is now considered as "cheating" and can get > servers > > > blacklisted, then it's quite simple: don't use it. Right now, we still > > > don't know if that's the reason his server was delisted. Hopefully, > > someone > > > from Valve will clear up the issue either here or privately. And if > they > > > do, please let us know the verdict. > > > > > > Question: If you start the server with 32 slots, use the dynamicslots > > > plugin to show 24 slots until 20 players join, are you still getting > the > > 32 > > > slots quickplay penalty while there are less than 20 players on the > > server? > > > If so, then I guess it's cheating the system, but I was under the > > > impression that quickplay was based on max slots not visible slots. I > > might > > > be wrong. > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Todd Pettit <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I am starting to believe valve probably intentionally made the > > > > _increasedmaxplayers not change with sv_visiblemaxplayers setting to > > keep > > > > us from "tricking" manipulating quickplay to send more players to a > 32 > > > > player server. My problem with that is valve never said anything > about > > it > > > > or told people it considers the practice the dynamicslots plugin a > > > > violation. Instead they choose to once again simply alienate and cost > > > money > > > > to dozens of admins. I say this without ever having been affected. I > > just > > > > think if valve had simply stated that the practice of changing the > > > > sv_visiblemaxplayers mid-game or specifically stated it considers the > > > > dynamicslots plugin a violation then this conversation would be moot. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "1nsane" <[email protected]> > > > > To: "Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list" < > > > > [email protected]> > > > > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:38:10 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Reminder about server tags > > > > > > > > Then you'd also have to keep the server always at 32 players or else > > when > > > > you use sv_visiblemaxplayers the tag can get removed. > > > > > > > > I see servers on the server list now at 32 players and no > > > > increased_maxplayers tag set. This is odd. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > You should not be delisted, but you DO run a 32 man server, and > > > advertise > > > > > it as a 24 man server. You do correctly change the tags once you > near > > > 24, > > > > > but it is false advertisement. If I'm looking for a vanilla 24 man > > > > server, > > > > > end up on your server, and then 10 minutes later I notice there are > > 32 > > > > > people, I'm going to be a little miffed. > > > > > > > > > > This isn't breaking the letter of the policy but it might be > treading > > > > along > > > > > the "spirit" of it. Just keep the increased_maxplayers tag on at > all > > > > times, > > > > > because you -are- running a 32 man server. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 9:59 AM, StevoTVR <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > It does sound like a violation of the policy's intent. What is > the > > > > > > difference between a 32 slot server and one that allows people to > > > join > > > > > > until there are 32 players? I think people would expect the > > displayed > > > > > > player limit to stay the same during the session. The only > reason I > > > can > > > > > > think of for why you do that is to make your server appear to be > > > > > something > > > > > > that it isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/18/2013 8:06 AM, Essay Tew Phaun wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> It doesn't violate it. Whether it's "ideal" to do so is another > > > thing > > > > > >> entirely. The tag is dependent upon sv_visiblemaxplayers which > can > > > be > > > > > >> changed at any time. If you're going to have some automated > system > > > > going > > > > > >> around delisting servers then you should at least make sure the > > > > features > > > > > >> enabled/disabled set the flags *immediately*. Other features set > > > those > > > > > >> flags immediately, such as bots. In my opinion, they should have > > > > linked > > > > > >> "increased_maxplayers" to maxplayers and not > sv_visiblemaxplayers. > > > > Then > > > > > if > > > > > >> you want to lower the visible players you can set > > > sv_visiblemaxplayers > > > > > to > > > > > >> something lower than 32 and remove the increased_maxplayers tag. > > It > > > > > >> shouldn't work in the opposite way, especially if they're going > to > > > > > delist > > > > > >> servers for it. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> TL;DR: It doesn't violate any policy the way it currently works. > > > When > > > > > >> sv_visiblemaxplayers is changed, the tag "increased_maxplayers" > is > > > > > added. > > > > > >> The problem is that it isn't changed immediately and if my guess > > is > > > > > >> correct, their automated tag checker has delisted some servers > > that > > > > > didn't > > > > > >> have this tag set at the time of the check. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:34 AM, dan <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On 17/02/2013 21:32, Essay Tew Phaun wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> The servers are all started as 32 player servers, > > > > sv_visiblemaxplayers > > > > > >>>> is > > > > > >>>> set to 24 players. Once 23 players join the > sv_visiblemaxplayers > > > is > > > > > set > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > >>>> 32 players. The tag "increased_maxplayers" is then applied. > This > > > > > isn't a > > > > > >>>> violation of the tag rules, which is what it's showing we were > > > > > delisted > > > > > >>>> for. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Why do you change sv_visiblemaxplayers? > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> I think, without some overwhelming answer to the above question > > > > > >>> what you do definitely violates increased_maxplayers. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> You have to think from the point of view of someone joining the > > > > server > > > > > >>> thinking it's a 24 slot server > > > > > >>> or someone using the tags to filter out servers with > > > > > >>> increased_maxplayers. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Even if strictly in the pedantic sense the tags are correct > > before > > > > and > > > > > >>> after > > > > > >>> you make the change, clearly in the intent of those tags you > are > > > > > breaking > > > > > >>> the rules imo. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> -- > > > > > >>> Dan. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> ______________________________****_________________ > > > > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > > archives, > > > > > >>> please visit: > > > > > >>> https://list.valvesoftware. > ****com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/*** > > > > > >>> *hlds_linux<https://list.**valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/** > > > > > >>> mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux< > > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> ______________________________**_________________ > > > > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > > > >> please visit: > > > > > >> https://list.valvesoftware. > > > > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > > > > please visit: > > > > > > https://list.valvesoftware. > > > > **com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux< > > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > - Gordon Reynolds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > > > please visit: > > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > *Plasma* > > > HyperionGaming.org Admin <http://www.hyperiongaming.org> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > -- > - Gordon Reynolds > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
