Soooooo... you're abusing a loophole in the quickplay system then
getting upset when your server gets delisted because of it?
On 2/18/2013 4:46 PM, Essay Tew Phaun wrote:
Right, but where is it expressed that it's against the rules? When it's
above 24 players it's advertised with the proper tag. I definitely don't
see it as any worse than joining some RTD server within the Quickplay pool.
Most of all, had Valve simply said "Don't do this". We would of removed it.
It's not that big of a deal to remove it really, had I thought they were
ever going to delist servers for it.
I'm still having trouble figuring out how this could be intended, because
there are a bunch of servers listed right now that are breaking this "rule".
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Gordon Reynolds <
[email protected]> wrote:
"The *only* reason we were doing it was to avoid the initial hit to our
quickplay score. The intention isn't to trick players, though I can see how
one may think that was the intention."
Yeah that's the problem right here, nobody believes it was your intention
to do wrong, but you ARE hosting a 32 man server, and then trying to still
score on the no-penalty quickplay traffic until you get more than 24
players. That's using the system to get more players into your server than
you'd normally get otherwise - because they might think they are here for a
good ol' 12 on 12 action. Not a 12 on 12 until more show up kind of game.
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Essay Tew Phaun <[email protected]>
wrote:
It's pretty simple to me, let server owners know it's a violation of the
policy and most will remove it. I've removed it from all of the servers.
The *only* reason we were doing it was to avoid the initial hit to our
quickplay score. The intention isn't to trick players, though I can see
how
one may think that was the intention. My problem is that the subject has
been brought up a few times and we've never gotten a direct answer on it
and by definition, it does not break the policy. The server is advertised
properly by the tag when the server goes beyond 24 players. We don't set
tags anywhere because we don't need to, when you enable/disable features
the server usually handles that for you. It seems really strange to me
that
you would automatically delist a server like that without answering the
question about whether this is a violation or not and without making it
so
when servers go above 24 players the tag is changed immediately.
I don't like the idea that we're not breaking the rules the way they
currently exist yet we've had a server delisted. I don't like the idea
that
we were never given a direct answer yet we had a server delisted. I also
see tons of servers right now running 32 players without the tag. It is
very very very bothersome that I've reported servers in the past who were
grossly breaking the policy of truth rules and it took them months to get
delisted, yet one of our servers is now breaking a rule that was never
clarified as breaking a rule? I have big problems with that, because I
would have not had a problem removing the dynamic slot changer had this
been expressed as a violation by Valve. The tag is changed when the
player
counts rise but because it's not done immediately (Don't ask me why this
is) a lot of servers were blacklisted for those few moments where the tag
doesn't exist?
I really believe this has to be a mistake, because there are a bunch of
servers right now as I type this that are breaking tag rules and are not
delisted. It's not enough that we have to work as a community as hard as
we
do to keep our servers full on a daily basis with client crashes and
server
crashes, now we've got a server delisted that really doesn't break any
rules.
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 2:51 PM, HyperionGaming.org Admin <
[email protected]> wrote:
Exactly. Valve never talked about the dynamicslots plugin as a
violation
before. If the plugin is now considered as "cheating" and can get
servers
blacklisted, then it's quite simple: don't use it. Right now, we still
don't know if that's the reason his server was delisted. Hopefully,
someone
from Valve will clear up the issue either here or privately. And if
they
do, please let us know the verdict.
Question: If you start the server with 32 slots, use the dynamicslots
plugin to show 24 slots until 20 players join, are you still getting
the
32
slots quickplay penalty while there are less than 20 players on the
server?
If so, then I guess it's cheating the system, but I was under the
impression that quickplay was based on max slots not visible slots. I
might
be wrong.
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Todd Pettit <[email protected]>
wrote:
I am starting to believe valve probably intentionally made the
_increasedmaxplayers not change with sv_visiblemaxplayers setting to
keep
us from "tricking" manipulating quickplay to send more players to a
32
player server. My problem with that is valve never said anything
about
it
or told people it considers the practice the dynamicslots plugin a
violation. Instead they choose to once again simply alienate and cost
money
to dozens of admins. I say this without ever having been affected. I
just
think if valve had simply stated that the practice of changing the
sv_visiblemaxplayers mid-game or specifically stated it considers the
dynamicslots plugin a violation then this conversation would be moot.
----- Original Message -----
From: "1nsane" <[email protected]>
To: "Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list" <
[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:38:10 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Reminder about server tags
Then you'd also have to keep the server always at 32 players or else
when
you use sv_visiblemaxplayers the tag can get removed.
I see servers on the server list now at 32 players and no
increased_maxplayers tag set. This is odd.
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Gordon Reynolds <
[email protected]> wrote:
You should not be delisted, but you DO run a 32 man server, and
advertise
it as a 24 man server. You do correctly change the tags once you
near
24,
but it is false advertisement. If I'm looking for a vanilla 24 man
server,
end up on your server, and then 10 minutes later I notice there are
32
people, I'm going to be a little miffed.
This isn't breaking the letter of the policy but it might be
treading
along
the "spirit" of it. Just keep the increased_maxplayers tag on at
all
times,
because you -are- running a 32 man server.
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 9:59 AM, StevoTVR <[email protected]>
wrote:
It does sound like a violation of the policy's intent. What is
the
difference between a 32 slot server and one that allows people to
join
until there are 32 players? I think people would expect the
displayed
player limit to stay the same during the session. The only
reason I
can
think of for why you do that is to make your server appear to be
something
that it isn't.
On 2/18/2013 8:06 AM, Essay Tew Phaun wrote:
It doesn't violate it. Whether it's "ideal" to do so is another
thing
entirely. The tag is dependent upon sv_visiblemaxplayers which
can
be
changed at any time. If you're going to have some automated
system
going
around delisting servers then you should at least make sure the
features
enabled/disabled set the flags *immediately*. Other features set
those
flags immediately, such as bots. In my opinion, they should have
linked
"increased_maxplayers" to maxplayers and not
sv_visiblemaxplayers.
Then
if
you want to lower the visible players you can set
sv_visiblemaxplayers
to
something lower than 32 and remove the increased_maxplayers tag.
It
shouldn't work in the opposite way, especially if they're going
to
delist
servers for it.
TL;DR: It doesn't violate any policy the way it currently works.
When
sv_visiblemaxplayers is changed, the tag "increased_maxplayers"
is
added.
The problem is that it isn't changed immediately and if my guess
is
correct, their automated tag checker has delisted some servers
that
didn't
have this tag set at the time of the check.
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:34 AM, dan <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 17/02/2013 21:32, Essay Tew Phaun wrote:
The servers are all started as 32 player servers,
sv_visiblemaxplayers
is
set to 24 players. Once 23 players join the
sv_visiblemaxplayers
is
set
to
32 players. The tag "increased_maxplayers" is then applied.
This
isn't a
violation of the tag rules, which is what it's showing we were
delisted
for.
Why do you change sv_visiblemaxplayers?
I think, without some overwhelming answer to the above question
what you do definitely violates increased_maxplayers.
You have to think from the point of view of someone joining the
server
thinking it's a 24 slot server
or someone using the tags to filter out servers with
increased_maxplayers.
Even if strictly in the pedantic sense the tags are correct
before
and
after
you make the change, clearly in the intent of those tags you
are
breaking
the rules imo.
--
Dan.
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