Hi Sol. Thanks for your reply! I absolutely agree that having a knowledge of Rails should be a prerequisite for diving into Hobo. Although I am new to the Rails scene, this is exactly what I am setting about doing. I already had a fairly good grasp of OOP so I've kinda dived headfirst at this new topic! Maybe I am expecting too much from Hobo at the moment, but my point is that I think that my ability to see what it is capable of is being hindered by the first few steps that would "get the ball rolling" so to speak. I realise that the problem in my example is the difference between an action and a link, that wasn't my point. My point was that if I had (with limited knowledge) put a Rails app together, I would have created all my controllers, models, views, arrays, variables etc manually. I would know what they were all called and how they fit together. With Hobo, I have found it exceptionally hard to get started because as soon as I abandon a tutorial to begin developing in Hobo for my own ends, I hit a brick wall with regards to finding information relevant to the beginnings of a project. Perhaps it is obvious once you know how everything fits together, but it certainly isn't at first glance. I also understand that I can define my own tags in DRYML, however I cannot find any information for how I discover how the current tags are being used. If I look in /app/views/taglibs/auto/rapid/pages.dryml I can see the definitions for the pages I have created, but I can't see any information about the homepage. I also can't find any information about how the "page" tag is laid out as standard, and because the views for every page other than the homepage are generated without a show.dryml file as standard, I am left with a big gap in the path to understanding how all of this works. It's far from easy for the enthusiastic newcomer. I just think if people like me could find a resource that was "bare bones" showing how the page tag is laid out as standard, where all the relevant files in the Hobo structure are etc etc, then it would make getting up and running a lot easier. If I compare my experience of Rails itself with Hobo, it's a no contest: In my first week of learning Rails, I learnt the syntax, file structure and successfully completed hours of online tutorials culminating in my building several working apps. The documentation and tutorials were there to support me and hold my hand when, pulverised by the amount of new information, I got hopelessly lost. With Hobo, the website promises fun and ease of use, it's the first thing you see! This hasn't been my experience thus far! I have the utmost respect for everyone working on Hobo, it is a truly remarkable achievement. I just wish that the barriers to entering this new and exciting world weren't so large! I'm really keen to move beyond my current "hopeless newb" status and actually contribute something useful to the scene (like some newb introduction information perhaps!).
On Dec 14, 1:40 pm, sol <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Ian, > > just a short answer to your very long post .. > I think it has been discussed a long time ago, either in irc or the > old forums, > don't remember if it is better to create a tutorial for migrating > existing sites > to hobo, or create entirely new sites. > The resulting decision was that it is better to show how to build a > new site - unfortunately > I don't remember the exact reason. > > Personally I agree that this is better, because it actually isn't much > of a difference. > You have to think about the functionality, and implement it in hobo > ways, then integrate > the theme, either from a template or from an existing site. > In both scenarios you need the same knowledge, and for this knowledge > the existing tutorials > should be enough. > > I think the problem is, people expect to much from Hobo, right now. At > least this is what I experience > when reading through questions here or in IRC. > > For example: > > You need a basic knowledge of how Rails works. What controllers are, > actions, resources etc. > In your above example, the problem is removing the index action vs > removing a link, which is something > entirely different. > > Then the next problem comes up: I realized that most people want to > reuse Hobos default dryml without > thinking about it (eg. the front page). It's often much easier to > write your own custom dryml tags, that's the > stuff where dryml really shines. > If you want a custom navigation, it's as easy as defining your own nav- > menu, with a bunch of nav-items, that's it. > No reason to specify model arrays in front/index.dryml or removing/ > adding actions. > > What I would suggest - and although it might sound complicated - is to > look at the auto generated definitions (app/views/taglibs/auto) and > the page definitions, eg. in the clean theme. > It will make working with Hobo much easier than trying to adjust and > reuse default tags - often that's more work than defining your own > tags. > > Btw. you can always ask in #hobo on freenode irc network if you face > any inconsistencies or problems :) > > greetings, > solars > > On Dec 14, 2:13 pm, "[email protected]" > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello everyone. > > > I agree that Hobo needs to be a friendlier topic to approach. As a new > > devotee to the Rails way of doing things I have had to learn a very > > large amount of information in short space of time. I feel like I've > > got a decent understanding of ruby and rails, and have built some baby > > rails apps to test my knowledge. I then stumbled across Hobo, and my > > first thought was: "Wow!" I'm totally sold on Hobo, and I really like > > the concept of DRYML, but I am having real trouble getting my bearings > > because of all the inconsistencies in the documentation. I have found > > much of what is currently documented very misleading when it comes to > > working with the current version. I initially tried the agility > > tutorial, and eventually got that working by digging around in various > > places for the information I needed. I also had a look at the > > screencasts, the manual or cookbook, the Pod tutorial, and the re- > > skinning your app from a css theme example. After reading everything I > > could lay my hands on, I would say that I'm still hanging by a thread > > in terms of being able to successfully do anything worthwhile in Hobo. > > I guess the main problem is that at the moment when I find a piece of > > information about Hobo and try to implement it, if it does not give me > > the expected result I can't be sure that it's something that I have > > done wrong. Half the time it turns out that the "way" of doing things > > has changed and therefore that information is obsolete. This makes it > > very hard to learn from your mistakes, whilst having solid information > > to fix things. For example something as simple as removing the theme > > from a Hobo app. Just remove <set-theme name="name_of_theme"/> from > > application.dryml the tutorial confidently states. This now breaks > > everything! Just one example of what I am talking about. I know that > > there are statements about some tutorials being out of date, but I > > can't find any information that works 100% without my having to dig > > around for an answer. I'm sure a lot of my problems are very easily > > solvable and will probably have some of the advanced Hobo'ers rolling > > their eyes, but it would be really helpful to have a resource for Hobo > > information that was concise and up to date. > > > I think the concept of transferring an existing site over to Hobo > > would be an excellent starting point for newbies such as myself. How > > about an example of the best way to do this with a static site, and > > then perhaps an existing Rails app? Then I think people following the > > documentation would get a nice gentle introduction into Hobo with the > > first example, plus explanations of file locations, and critical > > "can't do anything without knowing this" information. Then with the > > second example people would see how Hobo builds on top of what already > > exists in Rails, and how the development process changes because of > > this. An explanation of what is actually bundled up with Hobo would > > also be really useful. For example what Javascripts does Hobo use? > > What about Flash? > > > I think this would alleviate the problems that neewbs will encounter, > > make things more fun, and ultimately encourage enthusiastic people to > > continue learning about Hobo. It might also help the advanced guys as > > well, because they won't be getting inundated with confused newbie > > questions! > > > As an example of what I am talking about here is a confused neewbie > > question! > > > I am trying to move an existing static site:http://www.ianalexanderwood.com > > over to Hobo. I want to add a Blog/commenting section on the home > > page, and for the time being leave everything else as it is. Using > > Hobo I can then begin to develop the site away from it's static > > origins into a fully fledged content managed app. This situation would > > occur a lot for me, as a lot of the work I do on the web originates in > > a static "design" based way. I can see large issues in how some of > > this might work (like the actionscript 3 Flash menu navigation) but > > before I can even get to any of these issues I am floundering on > > something relatively basic. I have created models and controllers for > > each of the pages that I will be moving into Hobo. For the time being > > I was going to abandon the Flash navigation and go with the standard > > Hobo tabs. I have tabs for "home" "posts" "images" "sites" and > > "sounds" I want the "posts" tab to vanish whilst retaining the links > > to it in the "home" page and I want to remove the links in "home" to > > all of the other pages. > > > If I put: > > auto_actions :all, :except => :index > > in my "posts" controller it removes the tab and the links. How do I > > control them individually, and how do I control these things in the > > home page tab? There is no home controller, only the front controller, > > which will not accept auto_actions. Like I said, neewb questions but I > > think all I need is to be pointed in the right direction. > > > Thanks, and apologies for the very long post! > > > Ian > > > On Dec 7, 11:35 pm, Eric-news <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Dear Hobo-lovers, > > > > Since I've stumbled upon Hobo I'm really struggling to climb the > > > learning curve that's always involved with these things. I'm convinced > > > Hobo is what I'm looking for, and the point that it's not ripe for > > > production yet doesn't bother me much, since my site is non-profit. > > > The enthusiasm surrounding Hobo is good to see and very promising and > > > soon I will be using cutting edge technology! > > > > The tutorials are really impressive, if not somewhat overwhelming. > > > > I'm not only new to Hobo, but also (fairly) new to Rails. I've read > > > much theory regarding Ruby and Rails, but discovering Hobo (and > > > Phusion Passenger) convinced me this is the way to proceed. > > > > What I would like to see for the lesser gods like me, is a tutorial > > > that shows how to create a fairly simple website with some category- > > > buttons on a left panel and some detail-info buttons on top (or the > > > other way around). And a home button, duh. ;-) > > > > I mean, a tutorial that doesn't do right to the power of Hobo, but > > > gives you an old-fashioned 'static' website. But -as a bonus- with all > > > the pages editable on line by an authorized user. (With the login and > > > signup-buttons hidden.) > > > > If I had something like that, I'd have a starting point for an up and > > > running website. After getting accustomed to that, I then could lookup > > > the information in the tutorials about how to change the theme, extend > > > the authorization scheme and then gradually incorporate the real > > > powers of Hobo into my site. > > > > The current tutorials are not so much tutorials but proof that Hobo is > > > what we need. OK, you convinced me, but now I need a starting point. > > > > My apologies if I'm asking for something that's already on hobocentral > > > somewhere, perhaps I'm a bit impatient. > > > > For me, having something usable and trying to change that to my needs > > > using the documentation will get me much faster to understanding the > > > ins and outs of Hobo. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > -- > > > Greetings, Eric. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hobo Users" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hobousers?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
