There are plenty of urgent things that HOT hasn't mapped yet. What one
NGO thinks is urgent another might not agree.
Take look at the Import mailing list and you'll find many blunter posts
there.
There is a range of points of view within OpenStreetMap yours is one of
them.
If you go back to the response to your first posts and read through them
I think you will agree they were more polite. Unfortunately you seemed
unable to accept the advice given.
Fredrick can come across as blunt sometimes but what he says often makes
sense and I agree with him about the dangers of imports.
You are in a well mapped area. The locals probably know where their
local pharmacy is. From a medical point of view I'm unclear on how
knowing details of where a pharmacy is is important to COVID-19.
There are no known drugs at this point in time. Soap and water is
probably the most effective preventive treatment, that and not going
down to the pub or restaurant.
For the record I have done a fair amount of validation work in HOT
projects until I grew tired of poor work that took more effort to
validate than map correctly in the first place. These days I spend time
cleaning up the map, deleting duplicate buildings many of which have
been mapped on HOT projects, connecting villages that haven't been
connected with highways etc. I have had some experience with the import
process and of gathering together support for the local mappers to do an
import.
I suggest you relax a little, if OpenStreetMap isn't fun try something else.
Cheerio John
yo paseopor wrote on 2020-03-17 6:25 PM:
" But don't get me wrong. The problem is not the license or the
discussion. The problem is you have offended me. I demand an apology."
One responsible of here wrote:
1. Nothing is urgent here
2. Nobody will suddenly suffer because a pharmacy is missing from OSM
3. You sit at home with nothing else to do.
What do you think about this three topics? What if some one tell that
about one of the HOT projects?
Think about it.
If some OSM user say that to other user that would be unacceptable
If some HOT user say that to other user that would be unacceptable
If some HOT responsible say that to other user would be unacceptable
If some HOT responsible say that to a user about user's land would be
unacceptable.
I don't know who you are. It does not matter.
yopaseopor
PD: I'm confined. For the first time ever Spanish school (as European
schools) are stopped without date of return.Nor Civil War or II World
War stopped the school and confined all the people. Also major part
of citizens of Europe are confined. It's time to act.
On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 8:57 PM John Whelan <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
There is a difference between HOT and OpenStreetMap. HOT adds
data to OpenStreetMap and has to follow OpenStreetMaps rules when
adding data as we all do.
If you are mapping from local knowledge ie I can see this that is
fine by OpenStreetMap rules. The Import rules are for imports and
are there for a purpose which is to protect OpenStreetMap from
having data added to it that cannot be licensed by OpenStreetMap
to its end users using the .ODBL license.
Getting the correct license does take time sometimes, it took me
some five years to get the local municipal open data license
aligned with OpenStreetMap. It is today and we are able import
the local bus stops. Doesn't sound like much but we have all the
phone numbers to dial to see when the next bus is coming.
The quality of some imports made in the past has been less than
ideal. Certainly there are places on the map that have tags saying
fixme this village name maybe 2 kilometers out. I came across one
village yesterday with three different names which appeared to be
from three different imports.
Today imports are challenged routinely. Locally I handled the
last one because the person who did it before really didn't want
to go through the aggressive challenges to the license and data
quality that came from the import mailing list.
Remember OpenStreetMap has many members, only some of whom believe
that imports are good. Some others think if it hasn't been
surveyed with a mapper on the ground then it shouldn't be in the map.
Cheerio John
yo paseopor wrote on 2020-03-17 3:15 PM:
You insult me. You have said to a confined teacher (For 1st
time ever, and it is not a joke ALL the education has been
stopped in Spain sine die) literally: "you don't have any better
to do".
My first collaboration was Italy's 2015 Earthquake , in Amatrice.
In 24 hours I was mapping first the existed buildings, from Bing
or something like that. 24 hours later I was tagging the same
buildings following millitary data: red destroyed, yellow ruined
, green safe structures. It was an emergency, we had to act in
that moment, with no delay.
I talk about this in a interview in a MSF
Mapathon.https://beteve.cat/ciencia-i-tecnologia/crear-mapes-des-de-barcelona-per-fer-mes-accessible-lassistencia-medica-a-sierra-leone/
That impacted me so much. That changed my life. Nobody's tell me,
Hey! you don't have anything better to do (was on summer
holidays). From that, have I gone to 9? 10 mapathons?
5 years later, in a National Emergency situation one of the
"Lizard People" of OSM told me when I have to tried to complete
the pharmacies in my land , with a data set with specific
permission to OSM three things:
1. Nothing is urgent here
2. Nobody will suddenly suffer because a pharmacy is missing from OSM
3. You sit at home with nothing else to do
Tell me one reason to collaborate with HOT for Burundi or Burkina
Faso if I can't do with Catalonia or Spain, my land, with data
which we have an specific permission.
But don't get me wrong. The problem is not the license or the
discussion. The problem is you have offended me. I demand an apology.
yopaseopor
On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 4:53 PM Frederik Ramm
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi,
On 2020-03-17 16:47, yo paseopor wrote:
> "Nothing is urgent here. Nobody will suddenly suffer
because a pharmacy
> is missing from OSM. You are just making up an urgent task
because you
> sit at home with nothing else to do." said by Frederik Ramm
to an
> Openstreetmap volunteer who is confined at home due to #COVID19
> completing pharmacies in a zone, yesterday.
>
> Is this the way to promote HOT tasks or promote local
mapping in OSM. I
> don't think so.
You didn't promote local mapping, you promoted an import that has
meanwhile turned out to be a massive copyright violation
because you
decided to act first and ask questions later - which is
exactly the kind
of "help" that I am advocating against. I don't doubt your good
intentions, but I am certain that every single person in the
humanitarian sector knows that good intentions alone aren't
sufficient.
Bye
Frederik
--
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