Dear all,
Me again hoping not to bore you. I found it very Interesting to see what you can find on the web… Check this out – these guys seem to know about hg girls as a vielle playing hooker coming from Germany. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpUAj3OrpYk The musical “The hurdy-gurdy-girls” seems to have been popular and played in various theatres, so it should be possible to find out if there was a vielle prop used in the play. Here are also hints on the vielle: http://www.cariboojoy.com/hurdies.html Impression how a hg girl also might have looked: http://www.oceansbridge.com/oil-paintings/product/780/thehurdygurdygirl/be612d1c4881d833c4223d221586cf5e Even a novel was written: http://wingsepress.com/Bookstore/Hurdy-Gurdy%20Girl.htm This one’s interesting – about hg girls in the Idaho mining camp in the 1860, the hg is clearly describes as a vielle type isntrument http://www.idahostatesman.com/175/story/28068.html Also of interest for Doug may be the short treatment (draft) Feministes Fatales: The Feminist Movements and „Neo‟Burlesque by Mary Shearman including some literature sources http://the-outpost.ca/verge/conference/Papers/2008/Shearman.pdf This excerpt of the book “Upstair Girls” has a chapter on hg girls, but the description of the instrument is vague: “a type of hand-organ” http://books.google.de/books?id=A2r6YITTcj8C <http://books.google.de/books?id=A2r6YITTcj8C&pg=PA89&lpg=PA89&dq=hurdy-gurdy-girls&source=bl&ots=JrxQ7kr6hR&sig=6WW0YcWEUSSe07cCWqXQIlfGRAo&hl=de&ei=FlusSY2OOI2y0AXEqrDGBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result#PPR3,M1> &pg=PA89&lpg=PA89&dq=hurdy-gurdy-girls&source=bl&ots=JrxQ7kr6hR&sig=6WW0YcWEUSSe07cCWqXQIlfGRAo&hl=de&ei=FlusSY2OOI2y0AXEqrDGBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result#PPR3,M1 Best regards. I am curious where the discussion may lead. Ulrich _____ Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Ulrich Joosten Gesendet: Montag, 2. März 2009 22:30 An: [email protected] Betreff: AW: [HG-new] Re: Hurdy-gurdy girls [Was Tone problems] Hi Arle, Doug and all, Meanwhile I also did a simple google research on hurdy-gurdy girls and surprisingly I found quite some information. First of all, check this link out: http://www.hotpipes.com/hggirls2.html there you can get some discussion on the use of the term hurdy-gurdy for a vielle vs a barrel-organ. In the German Wikipedia you may find some article (unfortunately in German only) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdy-Gurdy-Girls including some weblinks (unfortunately some are broke) including literature sources. Some remarks on HG girls in Australia: http://www.teachers.ash.org.au/dnutting/germanaustralia/e/bendigo.htm Best regards, Ulrich _____ Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Doug Harvey Gesendet: Montag, 2. März 2009 20:06 An: [email protected] Betreff: [HG-new] Re: Hurdy-gurdy girls [Was Tone problems] Arle and Ulrich, Your discussion of the Hurdy Gurdy Girls is intriguing -- my work is on North American theaters 1750-1860 broadly speaking -- focus on the Ohio Valley before the Civil War. I haven't come across this phenomenon yet although Turnverein Halls were very common and could have easily facilitated something like the HGG. There was a Gold Rush in Colorado in 1858 that may have included something like this -- along with the minstrel shows entertainment had few limitations. And the demand for prostitutes on the frontier was perpetually sky high. I'll definitely be on the lookout and any source material you come across is of interest to me. Of course I'd be happy to share anything I find with the group -- Thanks, Doug Dr. Douglas Harvey Assistant Professor of History Fort Hays State University www.RowanCelticMusic.com www.DougHarvey.org "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men. Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for powers equal to your tasks." John F. Kennedy ----- Original Message ----- From: Ulrich <mailto:[email protected]> Joosten To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:54 AM Subject: AW: [HG-new] Hurdy-gurdy girls [Was Tone problems] Hi Arle, thank you for your thoughts on the topic. You name Kurt Reichmann and his article on hurdy-gurdy girls was the initial point for me to ask Doug if he came across the hurdy-gurdy-girls. As I wrote off-line to Doug, some years ago I did an interview for Folker! Magazine with Kurt Reichman to get backhground information on his hurdy-gurdy-girls photography book. He told me that he did a lot of research on the hurdy-gurdy-girls of his home region Hessen. We also published an article by Kurt Reichmann in Folker! The article says, that the hurdy-gurdy-girls were known as “Rhinelander” on the Californian gold fields. In England they were called “Hessian Broom Girls”. These Girls travelled even to Australia, Cuba and North America. Reichmann provided a facsimile of a contract between a white-slaver called Peter Sänger and a hurdy-girl stipulating that the girl “agreed on February 30th to go with Peter Sänger to France to play music (…) I will get 105 fr cash money, free pass (passport?) – free shoes. One shirt or 2 fr instead. A linen blue gown. On 14 days illness no deductions to be made. Free strings on the instruments. Decamtment on March 1943 and arrival in November of the same year. Witnesses: Franz Schneider, amen curler, Friedrich Datz, Johannes Lux.” Futhermore, Reichmann quotes a petition by clergyman Schellenberg of the town Kleeberg directed to the German National assembly. The petition’s title was “Seelenverkäuferei im Ausalnd betreffend” (“Concerning soul selling abroad”) In 1860, another clergyman, named Ottokar Schupp, published a novel called “Hurdy-Gurdy” dealing with the state of things in the townships of “Landgänger” (home towns of the travelling broom and fly whisk makers). A novel, certainly and romanticising maybe as well. There is at least one source for the hurdy-gurdy girl in America I know from the Reichmann collection. I saw the facsimile of a program booklet of the Boston Tremont theatre from July, 29th 1907. They were showing “The Hurdy-Gurdy Girl” (Book by Richard Carle; Music by H.L Heartz). In the cast the character of Lola, the hurdy-gurdy girl was played by Miss Mae Botti. Yes, for sure no proof of HG girls on the Californian gold fields. And also there the HG might have been mixed with a barrel organ. Maybe to know more of the sources one should ask Kurt Reichmann himself. I will send him an email and ask if he can name sources. Best regards, Ulrich _____ Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Arle Lommel Gesendet: Montag, 2. März 2009 15:12 An: [email protected] Betreff: [HG-new] Hurdy-gurdy girls [Was Tone problems] Hi Ulrich, Doug may have other ideas than I do, and I'm not a particular expert on American folk music (I work on Hungarian music primarily), but I do try to keep abreast of scholarship about hurdy-gurdies, including semi-regular searches of academic databases. From what I've found, this topic just isn't one that's been covered in English-language scholarship (I don't check German scholarship as regularly). It's also one that isn't likely to be taken up by ethnomusicologists or folklorists (my area of specialty) right now because, unlike in Europe, the idea of looking for "survivals" and origins (in a temporo-spatial sense) is completely out if fashion, having been replaced starting in the 1960s with scholarly methods that look more at current practice and performance techniques. That's not to say that questions of origins aren't interesting, but rather that scholars just don't focus on them in my discipline. You might find more from musical historians (but again, I've not seen anything published in my searches) or from enthusiastic amateurs (who probably don't publish...). So this is a long way of saying that, unless Doug knows differently, I just don't think you'll find what you're looking for. On a slightly different topic, I doubt that looking at folkloristic music (rather than, say, historical sources) is likely to find much for you in general. It seems that what little scholarship has been done on the hurdy-gurdy girls is pretty ambiguous on whether vielle-type instruments (rather than barrel organs) were even used. Given the general lack of evidence for the vielle in an American context versus the comparatively abundant evidence of barrel organs, my default assumption would be skeptical about the vielle in California gold-rush days, unless I see particular evidence otherwise. I know that Kurt Reichmann has argued in favor of the vielle, but I've not seen his exhibition and so really can't assess his argument. Assuming that he is correct, however, it is likely that the girls were called upon to play popular American tunes of the period, rather than "authentic" German Bauernleier repertoire. So the likelihood of any recognizable trace in American folk music (as distinct from later folklorizing compositions that might decide to evoke the HG girls) is pretty slim. (I'd love to be proven wrong, though.) -Arle And now to something (not really) completely different: I saw on your website you are dealing with History through Music. I wonder if during your studies you ever came along the tracks of the so called “Hurdy-Gurdy Girls”. It is know by historians that many girls from the German province Hessen during the 19th century were “hired” by conscienceless agents to immigrate to USA playing music in the music halls. It is reported that even in some Gold rush towns hurdy-gurdy girls were playing their music, but mostly forced to prostitution. For me it would be exciting to find if there are any tracks in the American folklore music basing on the traditional dance music that was brought by the hurdy-gurdy girls to America. I’m not sure if this is a topic to be discussed here on the list – if you wish you can send me a PN to discuss – if you are interested on that topic or if you have any information. _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 3/1/2009 5:46 PM --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hurdygurdy" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy The rules of posting, courtesy, and other list information may be found at http://hurdygurdy.com/mailinglist/index.htm. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
