Jim: I guess the real issue is that he stepped over the line. 2 (or so) years ago I sent a short note to him requesting moderation in his posts. He seems to have forgotten that is what he said he would do.
Please note none of the other vendors seem to do the same thing he has done. They announce their product and usually there is little or no announcements. The new features that he added which may/may not make his product better, I don't know and do not care. I don't know why he added STARTIO support and to advertise it seems to me a who cares. Only a systems person would care frankly. Yes this list is inhabited by systems people but trying to "sell" (or give away or whatever) to systems people is probably ill advised (IMO). While it *might* be nice that the product be known to systems people the people who make the final decision tend not to be our types. We may influence them but sign a contract usually not (I have a story about that but will do it offline if desired). Ed ps: I am *NOT* refering to any IBM product here. All the product people who give their time to the list are greatly appreciated. They support their products very well. DFSORT (Frank) might say this feature will be available in release xx (this is an example) and he does it well. The person in question seems to raise his voice until you have no other choice than to listen. Frank Yeager (sp?) does his job (IMO) superbly. Frankly (no pun intended) he does it the best. Other IBMers talk about their product in a non agressive mode which is perfect for the list. Its informative without being intrusive. We learn from it and that is what the list is for (IMO) to learn not to be yelled at about some new feature. COMPUWARE doesn't do it CA doesn't do it, CBTTAPE you hear small one or two line announcements. Likewise other vendors (except for one). Ed ________________________________ From: Jim Thomas <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, July 7, 2011 6:30:43 PM Subject: Re: Ads on IBM-MAIN Folks, IMHO ... there is a reason why 'supported' and or commercial products are not posted on here as much unless there is a question of usage. There are many posts here that have the usual 'how to' questions. From what I've known of Shai, he is extremely intelligent, very jovial and IMO, is merely trying to let others know of his updates (fixes) and asking for feedback. I doubt that (though he might hope for) he's actually trying to persuade and or force anyone into trying his product. He's merely excited about his accomplishment. In a manner of speaking, almost like somebody saying .. heyy .. I wrote this program to do a, b and c but it's only doing a and b. My resources and abilities to further test (and or rectify) this issue are limited so, could someone please have a go at it. We have a set number of groups that fall under an umbrella, e.g. MVS (or z/OS or whatever), VM, VSE, Linux ...... but everything else (e.g. products and or sub systems) that run under a given OS falls into the group that is owned by the OS. Besides, how many posts (especially in the recent years) have we run across that merely state ... I did this and got an 0C4 .. help..... or, I have been asked to do this or that but I don't have a clue ... help. In all honesty, from some of the ones that I've seen, it was very evident that the poster had not bothered to do any diagnosis or research into the problem before asking for help from our group. Perhaps Shai should have his own group but I'd think that would be for a later point in time. Of course, I do fully concur that this has to be a group decision. To me, this group is about support, advice, direction and even, assistance. In all fairness, I'd say, give the bloke some support. Lastly, it's very easy to misunderstand and or, take offence with email communiqué. It's just the nature of the vehicle. I doubt that there are many of us that would not be upfront if the real intent was indeed to offend. Personally, most of the time we are all just voicing our opinions and lord knows ... we are all different. Cheers Everybody. Kind Regards Jim Thomas 617-233-4130 (mobile) 636-294-1014 (res) [email protected] (Email) -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of shai hess Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 12:30 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Ads on IBM-MAIN >>MFNET (or whatever its called) I am sorry that many people do not care about (WHAT ITS CALL) that is OK. I think most of the people are in this status. Some people love WHAT ITS CALL. One person in this list the inventor of WHAT ITS CALL hate this product. It is better to hate WHAT ITS CALL than to "not care" about WHAT ITS CALL , because the distance between hate to love is shorter compared to the distance between "not care" and love. Hate WHAT ITS CALL sound like big suffering to WHAT ITS CALL inventor. So, today I will pray to God to help him and make his life happier compared to what it is today. I am sorry that something which belong to me made the inventor of WHAT ITS CALL to fell so bad. One thing I can promise you. WHAT ITS CALL is not your real problem. I did not mention the real name of WHAT ITS CALL even one time just to not give another reason to WHAT ITS CALL to be sad. Shai On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 9:32 PM, Ed Gould <[email protected]> wrote: > Seymour: > I tried to reply earlier and my IPAD kept mangling your name. > I do not agree about your technical support stance on here. > Just imagine if everyone that got stuff from the CBT tape and the xmit program > and mfn** started with ther tech questions on here. IBM-MAIN would be a mess, > probably 80 percent of the posts would be for those types of products. There > would be essentially 20 percent left of IBM type posting. Then through in > someone who likes to post long responses (no name here) no one would want to > subscribe to IBM-main anymore. > > I think its entirely reasonnable for each product to have its own group or > possibly the CBTTAPE to have its own then Lionel's product and mfnet (or > whatever its called) to group thier own products in groups. > > I think the CBTTAPE is a good example why it should keep its postings to a > CBTTAPE group as there is a multivaried group and filexxx would be to small > (IMO). > > If you want to know what is going on in a group (YAHOO ANYWAY) you set yourself > up as nomail and the its up to you to go to YAHOO and see what the latest > postings are. > IBM-main is just broad enough to hand IBM MVS type emails and that is about > enough. Of course if you don't mind the endless bickering of U** then it should > have its own email list or Darren should step in and say NO MORE take it > offline. The bickering over U** was worse than MFNET (or whatever its called). > Frankly if I had email sent to home account I would have bit bucketed the people > in question long ago and I would be not talking about MFnet (or whatever its > called) as it would have been sent to my junk mail folder 2 years ago when it > was originally broadcast. YAHOO does not allow me to do so without shutting off > IBM-Main altogether. > Yes it would be nice but I can't control YAHOO and I do not want to come back > from a week off to find 2000 messages either. > > Ed > > Ed > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wed, July 6, 2011 12:38:43 PM > Subject: Re: Ads on IBM-MAIN > > In <listserv%[email protected]>, on 07/05/2011 > at 08:00 AM, Alan Altmark <[email protected]> said: > >>Whether it's free or not isn't the issue. There is a significant >>difference among >>(1) calling out a product (commercial or freeware) as a possible >>solution to a posted problem >>(2) the author occasionally posting a reminder of his product >>(3)discussing the technical aspects of the product > > (4)Announcing a new product or a new release. > >>I don't object to the second since the product is free and has >>demonstrated benefit to the readership. > > That doesn't justify posting an advertisement. OTOH, I see nothing > wrong with a tombstone reference in the sig > >>The third, however, is Technical Support and can be reasonably >>requested to reside in another forum. > > If it's a mainframe product then I see nothing wrong with technical > support here. That's especially true for products involving multiple > vendors or multiple divisions of the same vendor. > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT > ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html> > We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. > (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [email protected] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [email protected] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html ----- No virus found in this message. 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